Just for Mardie and you other VLM only goobers.

[GeeeAus]

Let's work out the circumference of the moving part on the floor in inches so for example..... 5" in diameter. The circumference is pie (3.14159) X diameter =15.71 inches a mile it 5280 FT. or 63360 inches the moving part travels at - let's just pick a number here.... 7200 rpm. The moving part on the floor would have to revolve 4033.10 time to make a mile ...aaaw you do the math..I'm going to bed!

It doesn't seem very likely it spins at anywhere near 100MPH.

Grant

 

[Goomer]

It seems that most VLM vs HWE debates seem to focus on the level of soil removal achievable using one method compared to the other method.

Although I do see this as an arguable debate on both sides, as no method removes EVERYTHING, to me, a main point that seems to be frequently lost to the "I remove more than you" debate, and which I find more to be more relevant argument, is not what is removed, but what is being left behind.

To me, the argument hinges mainly on the realistic performance of an encapsulating polymer in not only effectively encapsulating soils and oils, but being easily removed once "dry" as most manufacturers portray, and if you ARE leaving a film of residual polymer behind, isn't that film contaminated with whatever was present in the first place??

Even if you do believe in the magic powers of the Pixie Dust, leaving a crucial step that is necessary to complete this encapsulation process, that being correctly and frequently post vacuuming, using efficient equipment, in the hands the average uneducated homeowner is where I see a problem.

 

[bildung]

Demo

Did my demo for another apartment complex yesterday--got the work.

Better stain performance, better odor control. According to the super, the TM guys just go over quick with the wand, then dye over all the left behind stains, for a premium fee.

Great work guys! Now I'm going to come in and actually clean and deodorize the carpet and Blend n Mend traffic areas and wear patterns, cutting the need to re-dye by 90%. And I'm going to use my VLM vapor steamer to clean the laminates, which the TM guys just walk right over.

That's my angle vs. TM knuckle draggers, they're all about wham bam thank you ma'am and generally have scant chem knowledge and slim spotting skills.

They cant even control pet odors after multiple attempts--no Hydrocide in TM world?

Per Mikey et al per the use of TM vs buffer/OP: yes TM is generally much more cumbersome, particularly if upper floors are involved, and especially if its a one man crew.

OPs with big wheel kits are extremely nimble.

The Chem Dry franchises resist the powerheads for these reasons and because the TM system in CD's case gulps a great deal of the expensive rinse.

CD corporate pushes the TMs so they can sell giant amounts of their chems and, of course, the equipment itself, which is maintenance intensive. The boilerplate about 'commitment to superior cleaning' from the motorized systems is propaganda for the profit motive.

I've gathered on these threads that Mikey is all knowing, but I was a CD tech for six years, and our vans always had both buffers and TMs.

So I've had a very long time to compare the methods head to head on a regular basis.

Even here at MB its largely conceded that VLM has rendered TM passé for commercial work and the same fate likely awaits for the Resi market as well.

Chems and machines are improving all the time, while TM remains mired in the 50's. Do you guys still watch black and white TV too?

 

[Goldenboy]

Noel I have some high rises I cant get to with a TM. Whats your favorite pre-spray mix for the nasties?

Waldo

 

[Willy P]

http://www.sharkclean.com/shark-sonic-duo/ A step up for Mardie and his pussy posse.

 

[GeeeAus]

Did my demo for another apartment complex yesterday--got the work.

Better stain performance, better odor control. According to the super, the TM guys just go over quick with the wand, then dye over all the left behind stains, for a premium fee.

Great work guys! Now I'm going to come in and actually clean and deodorize the carpet and Blend n Mend traffic areas and wear patterns, cutting the need to re-dye by 90%. And I'm going to use my VLM vapor steamer to clean the laminates, which the TM guys just walk right over.

That's my angle vs. TM knuckle draggers, they're all about wham bam thank you ma'am and generally have scant chem knowledge and slim spotting skills.

They cant even control pet odors after multiple attempts--no Hydrocide in TM world?

Per Mikey et al per the use of TM vs buffer/OP: yes TM is generally much more cumbersome, particularly if upper floors are involved, and especially if its a one man crew.

OPs with big wheel kits are extremely nimble.

The Chem Dry franchises resist the powerheads for these reasons and because the TM system in CD's case gulps a great deal of the expensive rinse.

CD corporate pushes the TMs so they can sell giant amounts of their chems and, of course, the equipment itself, which is maintenance intensive. The boilerplate about 'commitment to superior cleaning' from the motorized systems is propaganda for the profit motive.

I've gathered on these threads that Mikey is all knowing, but I was a CD tech for six years, and our vans always had both buffers and TMs.

So I've had a very long time to compare the methods head to head on a regular basis.

Even here at MB its largely conceded that VLM has rendered TM passé for commercial work and the same fate likely awaits for the Resi market as well.

Chems and machines are improving all the time, while TM remains mired in the 50's. Do you guys still watch black and white TV too?

Your post is both eloquent and a little confusing. Are you just referring to truck mounted extractors or hot water extraction in general.

I really pride myself on my chemical understanding. It is my silver bullet on the job site. In hot water extraction applications there are a wide array of differing treatments to choose from, and different tools to use in concert with them. Wands, water claws, rotarys, hand tools, stair tools it seems to me hot water extraction has substantially more scope and greater range of capability. Encapsulation is not an effective way of removing widespread urine contamination from the underlay. Performance on upholstery can be quite variable too. And of course the ace that hot water extraction has is that a cleaner can do the whole job VLM to get its' unique benefits and then still rinse the job, and the soil at the end.

Grant

 

[Jimmy L]

BilDUNG how can you even compare some apartment hacks with minimal training to a real professional carpet cleaner?

That dried polymer RESIDUE left behind with those encrap shampoos used in buildings for years will have a negative effect on air quality as it gets sucked through the HVAC system.

Ever hear that all of us has some of that teflon on the bottom of pans floating around in our bloodstream?

Now think of all that airborne polymer pixie dust blowing around in a home or building.

And in the future look for the FEDS to clamp down on this as it pertains to indoor polution.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Judging carpet cleaners by the performance of the average apartment cleaner is idiotic. Kinda like judging the players of a professional sport by ripping on kids who play it in middle school. +++ As you stated it's the chemicals your using that are making spots and odors removable not the pad or the fact that your pad jiggles.

Chemdry Tm's are truck mounted but sad examples. They are similar to mounting a 120psi porty in the truck. Many factors go into why they wont clean well: 120psi is low pressure = low flow = low heat at the fiber. Their rx is jetted poorly.

FYI most of us Knuckle draggers have no problem making chem dry look pathetic.

Now if your scrubbing machine and plastic juice are able to break down the stains and oils don't you think using the same system....then removing what you just put down + what was there would yield a cleaner carpet?

Does Odorcide vacuum out? Do you stay and make sure you've vacuumed out all of your plastic residue? If not then one might say VLM knuckle draggers, they're all about wham bam thank you ma'am and generally have scant soil removal skills and slim ethics.

 

[Goldenboy]

Listen u shit swirlers I have sent you messages and asked a question here answer them or I will ban your ass

Waldo

 

[Desk Jockey]

Hey Waldo where is the 2014 Top Twenty Five? I want to know if I made the list yet.

Seriously I sent in the reports on all those cleaners you had me visit and and rate in my 4-state area. That was too much driving next year I only want to cover two states Kansas & Nebraska. Nebraska just so I can give Ladwig a LOW rating!

 

[ruff]

He created two whole new categories for you:

• Carpet Talkers.
• Virtual Cleaners.

Needless to say, you're Numero Uno, Top Honcho, Man of the Decade, Head Goober and or you name it, on both

Go celebrate tonight. Don't let it go to your head.

 

[Mikey P]

I've gathered on these threads that Mikey is all knowing, but I was a CD tech for six years, and our vans always had both buffers and TMs.

Did you watch some of my Albert and Mike Get Stoned video?
Albert was a Chem Dry owner for years. I know how it all works. And like all things in life the variables are tremendous. Albert was a good Chem Dry cleaner but now that he can run with higher pressure and use better chems he is a much happier and more efficient cleaner.


For the most part Apartment cleaners, regardless of method are in that market because they don't have the skills, tools and personality to create enough steady higher end residential work.
Like Jesse said, bragging that you beat the performance of a goober isn't saying much.

 

[Desk Jockey]

He created two whole new categories for you:

• Carpet Talkers.
• Virtual Cleaners.

Needless to say, you're Numero Uno, Top Honcho, Man of the Decade, Head Goober and or you name it, on both

Go celebrate tonight. Don't let it go to your head.

LOL

 

[Desk Jockey]

For the most part Apartment cleaners, regardless of method are in that market because they don't have the skills, tools and personality to create enough steady higher end residential work.
Like Jesse said, bragging that you beat the performance of a goober isn't saying much.

That market is all about cleaning for a price, NOT about cleaning for quality (no matter what they tell you).

Very little loyalty, carpet cleaners are a dime a dozen to them and they really don't care who does their cleaning. If you have the account now, enjoy it! But I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket, because someone new will come in and do it cheaper than you and you'll be out the door.

 

[FredC]

I was about to say something similar in that the apartment complex has likely struck gold in him. I may be off base but it seems to be a habit of new owner operators to put in far more work than they are being paid for only to have the financial reality set in later.

Of course that is not always true, not everybody has the same income goals/needs, and money can definitely be made cleaning apts.....

 

[Mikey P]

it seems to be a habit of new owner operators to put in far more work than they are being paid for only to have the financial reality set in later.

Exactly, even high enders can be guilty of that, air paths, post padding, too many tarps, corner guards etc, ourselves included.

 

[Desk Jockey]

That's not saying there aren't good cleaners cleaning apts but as you mentioned at some point you have to wonder if you're being paid for all your efforts.

If you're not you have to figure ways to increase production and often that means short cuts and that's where the rub begins.

We get calls all the time to bid on apts but its a waste of time. While they have hundreds and hundreds of units to clean they pay so poorly (college town) you can't afford to do more than wet the carpet. I hate missing out on work but we refuse to work for peanuts, wear & tear on equipment, technicians, all with little return on investment. No thanks, that's not us.

 

[Zee]

Did my demo for another apartment complex yesterday--got the work.

Better stain performance, better odor control. According to the super, the TM guys just go over quick with the wand, then dye over all the left behind stains, for a premium fee.

Great work guys! Now I'm going to come in and actually clean and deodorize the carpet and Blend n Mend traffic areas and wear patterns, cutting the need to re-dye by 90%. And I'm going to use my VLM vapor steamer to clean the laminates, which the TM guys just walk right over.

That's my angle vs. TM knuckle draggers, they're all about wham bam thank you ma'am and generally have scant chem knowledge and slim spotting skills.

They cant even control pet odors after multiple attempts--no Hydrocide in TM world?

Per Mikey et al per the use of TM vs buffer/OP: yes TM is generally much more cumbersome, particularly if upper floors are involved, and especially if its a one man crew.

OPs with big wheel kits are extremely nimble.

The Chem Dry franchises resist the powerheads for these reasons and because the TM system in CD's case gulps a great deal of the expensive rinse.

CD corporate pushes the TMs so they can sell giant amounts of their chems and, of course, the equipment itsel, which is aintenance intensive. The boilerplate about 'commitment to superior cleaning' from the motorized systems is propaganda for the profit motive.

I've gathered on these threads that Mikey is all knowing, but I was a CD tech for six years, and our vans always had both buffers and TMs.

So I've had a very long time to compare the methods head to head on a regular basis.

Even here at MB its largely conceded that VLM has rendered TM passé for commercial work and the same fate likely awaits for the Resi market as well.

Chems and machines are improving all the time, while TM remains mired in the 50's. Do you guys still watch black and white TV too?

You, my man, seriously need a ride along with an operator that knows what he is doing...

Your false beliefs about this work is just that. False.

You can give me a call or send a message when you wana go for a day or two to see how it could be done.

I'll even buy you lunch....

 

[Desk Jockey]

Agreed, just for your own knowledge as to how it's correctly done. Then you can at least make educated judgments.

 

[GCCLee]

I tend to focus on the replacement cost aspect, and leave nothing for anyone else to clean after me. Except some stubborn colors maybe.
It's all splash and dash work. Prices are low to be in the market because of the HAcks who charge full then just go spot clean, so you have to adapt and run em based on time.

I can take a 980sqft 2br apt w stairs, Horrid Traffic lanes in every room, in most cases Restore it in an about a hour : ) Longer it takes the more it costs me. Nice for a morning shift when it's slow.

Apt Cleaning is Bust a Move stuff, WFO and clean is how I run em.

 

[Mardie]

That market is all about cleaning for a price, NOT about cleaning for quality (no matter what they tell you).

Very little loyalty, carpet cleaners are a dime a dozen to them and they really don't care who does their cleaning. If you have the account now, enjoy it! But I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket, because someone new will come in and do it cheaper than you and you'll be out the door.

Richard all I hear here is excuses from TM HWE guys. I myself have never said that HWE is no good. I do believe it can do an exellent job under the rite conditions and in the hands of a truly skilled operator. BUT BUT the big problem with HWE that I see is that the vast majority of operators are doing nothing more than providing a low level splash and dash wet vacuum service. Their are Hacks using all methods but it is very common with HWE. I also believe that the expectations that the majority of HWE guys have is very low. We carpet cleaners compete against each other for work and I can say as a VLM carpet cleaner that I have no problem out performing HWE. Now remember I did not say HWE was no good or could not compete because I believe that if I ever ran across one that new his stuff I am sure they can. But where do you find one? Their maybe a small hand full of guys on this board that will fit the bill but I would bet that most of them just provide lip service. To give you an example I work for these people in a very high end establishment. This is the kind of job that is constantly being approached by HWE guys because it is the cream of the crop for my area. Quite some time after I started doing their work the person in charge told me that in 30 years being their that they have never had anyone clean carpet as well as I do. I am a VLM carpet cleaner. So again I am not saying HWE is no good But I am saying that it would be very difficult to find a good one. You HWE guys should just compete as individuals and not try to validate yourselves based on your method or how much noise your truck makes.

 

[cu]

Best thread on Mikey's in a while.
Doc . I talked with you before you got into trauma scene cleaning and you where not sure about doing it . But your init now and seem to be making money at it. .how much would you pay me to show you how you could add about 250 k to 500k from the apartments in your city. Let me know how many units , ill give you an idea of who much you could make.
I went out on New Year's Eve for for 2 and 1/2 hours 6.30 pm to 9 pm and made 2300 bucks in an apartment job , and it,s already paid.

Bildung. Enjoy the sunshine. But it always rains sooner or later. I'm not saying what your doing is wrong but the apartments are leaving themselves open to legal problems somewhere down the road MAYBE. But that's a long thread and I'm not getting into it

As some of you know I've giving a presentation at ICE on how to make money in apartments
And I'm not lying when I say it's a skill all it's own, like high end res which we also do , or restoration work.
You have to know your business, Doc,s skill set at restoration or Mikey's at tile are above mine, but in apartments ...I'd make them look like Stan and Ollie

most cleaners fail at apartments because they don't know the business. You might be able to clean a carpet but that's only a very small part of the job. You have to understand the apartment ind.

it took us 3 years to go from 100% apt to 50% /50% apt and res without losing money. We charge.45 to .75 sqft on houses
2 of the speakers at MF use me as their go to for repairs and for another one I'm giving a color repair class to his crews
we really don't have a slow season and each truck is home on avg by 5pm
each truck makes over125k a year on apartments alone .
We fire apartments and they fire us from time to time and for different reasons ,that's part of the business. 85%of the complexes we've parted company with come back within 30 days
We are so well respected at what we do .that when people lose their jobs at apartments often we find them a new job at a different complex. One of the last managers we helped, left 800 apartments and we got her a new job in another STATE with a different company making more money, and we still have the 800 apartments she left

20 years 3 different states always made money ,

never used vlm only in apartments and with very good reason. But I Have and Still use very good Portys and Truckmounts.

You can make very good money in any area of our Trade . If you know your chosen field/s
i just know mine very well
Your all welcome to find out the details at the show in Vegas

 

[Desk Jockey]

Mardie If thats true which its a sad statement if it is, then I would say your market is an isolated case. That's far from what we see in this area. There are the cheap guys that complete for the lower market but competition in the middle and the top of the market is stiff. If you're not at the top of your game, regardless of method, you're in for a struggle.

The other thing is consumers buy "carpet cleaning " not method. They buy off reputation and referral

 

[Desk Jockey]

Cu good to see you posting! We have two ATP meters now, yes thanks for all your help.

I'm afraid I'll have to pass on the apartments. They are not our target market and don't care to pursue them. Lower hanging fruit thats more profitable despite potential sales.

Should be a good speech and hopefully you can help the porty group understand they are working too hard for too little. Good for you for helping them.

Can you do anything Mardie? He really needs some help, he's a good guy just a little close minded.....ok A LOT closed minded. : )

 

[Mardie]

Mardie If thats true which its a sad statement if it is, then I would say your market is an isolated case. That's far from what we see in this area. There are the cheap guys that complete for the lower market but competition in the middle and the top of the market is stiff. If you're not at the top of your game, regardless of method, you're in for a struggle.

The other thing is consumers buy "carpet cleaning " not method. They buy off reputation and referral

Regarding my market area. The city I live in is around 350K and the surrounding area is highly populated with towns and villages. The city I live in is also considered to be one of the best cities for new idea testing. That is because research says that if a product or service can make it here it can make it anywhere. Does not apply to me so much because I sell results ,not method.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Ya know Mardie, all of us who perform top notch service (by your statements that's you too) hear how great we are compared to the "other guys". The reality is you won't get many opportunities to take work from skilled operators regardless of what they are using because their clients are happy and have been impressed with their service compared to the "other guys". Luck for us, most cc aren't very good or detailed.

I disagree that vlmer are better than hwe guys by %. Most VLM companies don't spent the time to truly clean a carpet, it's more time consuming to deliver top notch vlm job than it is a hwe job with top of the line HWE equipment.

We get lots of jobs from vlm guys who either vlm'd their way into a carpet that no longer responds to encapping because it's so impacted with crap and it's now also a wicking nightmare for hwe. Another would be the black socks from"clean" carpet.

We have op's, 175s/300s, various crbs, tm's, porties, and a pile lifter we don't use

 

[Desk Jockey]

Regarding my market area. The city I live in is around 350K and the surrounding area is highly populated with towns and villages. The city I live in is also considered to be one of the best cities for new idea testing. That is because research says that if a product or service can make it here it can make it anywhere. Does not apply to me so much because I sell results ,not method.

Huge market. We're a little less than half that size. Lockhart said its like a small town atmosphere.
It is too, you can't operate like a big city. A bad Rep will nuke you. Its good though keeps you on your toes.

 

[Bruce Humphrey]

...I'd make them look like Stan and Ollie

They already look like Stan and Ollie

 

[Desk Jockey]

#!@&%+/?##!!!!



LOL

 

[dealtimeman]

You, my man, seriously need a ride along with an operator that knows what he is doing...

Your false beliefs about this work is just that. False.

You can give me a call or send a message when you wana go for a day or two to see how it could be done.

I'll even buy you lunch....

Zee I am always up for learning, where we going to eat lunch.