Just for Mardie and you other VLM only goobers.

[Shorty]

no clue, Shorty
But when I started the vid, and saw who it was, I stopped watching ..
cause I wouldn't trust a g-ddamned thing dustbin said

..L.T.A.

You got farther than me Larry, I seen the pic up top and went no further.

Trust him ??

Only as far as I could kick him if I had two broken legs.

From experience.

 

[Ron Werner]

interesting read. Took up my Sunday evening.
I'm sure someone was thinking it when they showed that dry soil on the plate...where's Ron! That wasn't from any vacuum. If it was, buy another one.

What we're taught is that 80% is dry soil. Dry vacuum it out. There's pretty much all your weight difference right there.
The remaining 20% is stuck on the fibres with oils, etc and require some chemical/mechanical means to break that bond. So I wouldn't put much stock in that weight testing. However, IF no dry vacuuming is performed, HWE would remove more than VLM since there is actually a "vacuum" system, except for Dry powder, since they are essentially dry vacuuming,

I've often been cleaning a carpet, using HWE, and evaluating how the wand is performing and wondering how well a VLM system would have worked on it. Now, I'm not using the old style wands which flood and suck, I'm using a angled jet wand so I can see it flushing the carpet. I've thought that running a pad across this carpet would remove that surface soil, the shampoo would break that bond, but it wouldn't be giving it that flush, esp on berber. The reason I use HWE, and spend $1000's to buy and set up my busn to use that equipment ( and right now with all the BS I'm going through with a new install the VLM is looking very attractive ) I still find it to be the best way to clean a carpet. You can believe I'm not spending the money because of any ego! Can I make it look clean with the other methods? You bet. Just put in the prep steps and it'll look beautiful. Don't have to worry about propane, or carrying water, etc etc. But I know I'll be leaving something behind.

I offer VLM, but only in highrises or inaccessible areas, or for budget reasons, or certain soiling conditions. There may come a time when there might be water rationing, ie our reservoir isn't exactly full this year, where a VLM method may be the only way. When that time comes I'll simply explain that this is the best method "available". But as soon as there is water again, HWE is the best method available.

Gee, start to finish, I think I spend an hour on this thread!

 

[Mardie]

Ron I just seen a vid on a square scrub OP machine that has obtained CRI certification as a deep clean method. This will surly open the doors for all OP machines made and at the same time will dispel all the funny talk from users of competing methods.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I have a square scrub machine, I've not tried it on carpet but I'd be a little afraid to do it on residential carpet.

It's very heavy and very aggressive, I'd have some tip blooming concerns. You can strip floors dry, what's that bad boy going to do to residential carpet?

 

[GCCLee]

I have a square scrub machine, I've not tried it on carpet but I'd be a little afraid to do it on residential carpet.

It's very heavy and very aggressive, I'd have some tip blooming concerns. You can strip floors dry, what that bad boy going to do to residential carpet?

Burn it up if not kept lubricated well enough.

 

[Mardie]

BTW the square scrub CRI approval as a deep cleaning method was proven using NASA approved scientific testing.

 

[FredC]

Ron I just seen a vid on a square scrub OP machine that has obtained CRI certification as a deep clean method. This will surly open the doors for all OP machines made and at the same time will dispel all the funny talk from users of competing methods.

A Bronze rating and the square scrub was not approved a "system" was and that system seems to be a bit unrealistic for a carpet cleaner to complete in a resi situation................and make money.

To clean to BRONZE level standards one would have to:

Square Scrub® System
There is a four step cleaning process. The first step is pre-vacuum using a CRI SOA/GL approved vacuum 4 passes at 1.8ft/sec on each pass. The second step is to pre-spray with Majestic carpet cleaner 8oz/1gl at 1.0gl/20ft2. Allow to dwell for 10 minutes prior to cleaning. The third step is to clean with the Square Scrub® machine using 4 passes at a rate of 1ft/sec on each pass. Allow to dry, then the final step is to vacuum with the Tennant LWU13 upright 4 passes at 1.8ft/sec on each pass.

 

[Keeping up]

I have a square scrub machine, I've not tried it on carpet but I'd be a little afraid to do it on residential carpet.

It's very heavy and very aggressive, I'd have some tip blooming concerns. You can strip floors dry, what's that bad boy going to do to residential carpet?

The square scrub reminds me of the old Argonaut machine on steroids. Cant see how it would cause tip bloom, I thought that was just because of the round motion in OP.

 

[Desk Jockey]

WAIT ONE DAMN minute!

Now you're one of those guys huh. You knock the CRI and poke fun at their recommendations but when they say something you agree with, you use them as validation.

You Mardie are a bigger piece of shheeet than I've given you credit for.

Way to push your limits!

 

[Desk Jockey]

The square scrub reminds me of the old Argonaut machine on steroids. Cant see how it would cause tip bloom, I thought that was just because of the round motion in OP.

Could be Tater.

I'm just guessing. I've not tried it on carpet but it does great on VCT. With the weight of the unit and how effective it is on VCT I can't fathom using it on soft goods.

 

[PDES-SC]

How much co2 was put in the atmosphere? Zero for me.

Interesting discussion, for a non-carpet cleaner I am learning a lot. But this intrigues me. Where does the power come from that runs your equipment?

Pet peeve, spent over a decade in the renewable energy business and people that think electricity magically appears or is derived from fairy farts with no emissions just prove their own lack of understanding. Where you live, your electricity was probably coal generated. Yeah, burning coal doesn't put ANY CO2 into the air. (note that coal is dug up and mined and that is a very fossil fuel intensive process. Track it all the way back for total CO2 foot print. ) In short, your CO2 emissions may have been lower than running a truck mount, but lets be honest - it was by NO MEANS even close to zero.

Looks like both methods work to me. Sounds like a MAC vs PC argument.

 

[Desk Jockey]

or is derived from fairy farts

Mardie?

 

[Mardie]

WAIT ONE DAMN minute!

Now you're one of those guys huh. You knock the CRI and poke fun at their recommendations but when they say something you agree with, you use them as validation.

You Mardie are a bigger piece of shheeet than I've given you credit for.

Way to push your limits!

You just wait one dam minute I only stated a fact of interest. I did not give my opinions on this subject. But I did know all you HWE guys would get in a hissy over this good news.

 

[FredC]

Interesting discussion, for a non-carpet cleaner I am learning a lot. But this intrigues me. Where does the power come from that runs your equipment?

Pet peeve, spent over a decade in the renewable energy business and people that think electricity magically appears or is derived from fairy farts with no emissions just prove their own lack of understanding. Where you live, your electricity was probably coal generated. Yeah, burning coal doesn't put ANY CO2 into the air. (note that coal is dug up and mined and that is a very fossil fuel intensive process. Track it all the way back for total CO2 foot print. ) In short, your CO2 emissions may have been lower than running a truck mount, but lets be honest - it was by NO MEANS even close to zero.

Looks like both methods work to me. Sounds like a MAC vs PC argument.

He is in Raleigh so probably nuclear....so his statement is mostly correct...but I'm sure he drove there....and his equipment was manufactured somewhere......

 

[Desk Jockey]

Gawwwd "HWE guys"?

How about you use a new term? Multi system cleaners........unlike someone yet un-named.........MARDIE!

You should come to MF10 I'd keep everyone from kicking your ass....well....maybe!

 

[ruff]

A Bronze rating and the square scrub was not approved a "system" was and that system seems to be a bit unrealistic for a carpet cleaner to complete in a resi situation................and make money.

To clean to BRONZE level standards one would have to:

Square Scrub® System
There is a four step cleaning process. The first step is pre-vacuum using a CRI SOA/GL approved vacuum 4 passes at 1.8ft/sec on each pass. The second step is to pre-spray with Majestic carpet cleaner 8oz/1gl at 1.0gl/20ft2. Allow to dwell for 10 minutes prior to cleaning. The third step is to clean with the Square Scrub® machine using 4 passes at a rate of 1ft/sec on each pass. Allow to dry, then the final step is to vacuum with the Tennant LWU13 upright 4 passes at 1.8ft/sec on each pass.

After the Rug Doctor debacle, does it really matter what the CRI says?

To me it suggests that they'll do anything for money. I guess according to Bryan, we should not look down on it, as they do not serve us but their members. (I guess truth and integrity does not count for much.)
CRI (Cash Rules over Integrity?)

 

[Desk Jockey]

They are working on new testing with a genuine concern for valid results.

So yes, they stubbed their toe but there is still hope they can make improvements over the last time.

 

[FredC]

Ofer,

I was just giving the benefit of the doubt cause it has been stated they are changing their ways.

Still unrealistic.

"Mrs. Piff, in order for the job you paid me for to be completed to the lowest CRI level...... tomorrow you need to buy a CRI approved vacuum and make 4 passes at 1.8ft/sec on each pass to remove all the shit I left behind"

 

[ruff]

Saint Richard, and you told me that you're the portable of Catholics!

Your forgivefulness is awesome!

Could it be matched by your forgetfulness and gullibility?

I take it less lightly when somebody (like the CRI) pees into our pool. Especially if they do it while standing on the diving board.

 

[Jimmy L]

Marty and I both had a square scrub machine way back........year 2000?...........uncontrollable on a carpet.

POS

 

[PDES-SC]

He is in Raleigh so probably nuclear....so his statement is mostly correct...but I'm sure he drove their....and his equipment was manufactured somewhere......

Nitpicking and off topic but:

"For low quality ores (less than 0.02% of U3O8 per tonne of ore), the CO2 produced by the full nuclear life cycle is EQUAL TO that produced by the equivalent gas-fired power station."

Granted this is less than coal, but not by much.

 

[Mardie]

Gawwwd "HWE guys"?

How about you use a new term? Multi system cleaners........unlike someone yet un-named.........MARDIE!

You should come to MF10 I'd keep everyone from kicking your ass....well....maybe!

Don't shoot the messenger

 

[Desk Jockey]

Don't shoot the messenger

Naaaw it's ok, there will always be another messenger.

 

[Mardie]

Ofer,

I was just giving the benefit of the doubt cause it has been stated they are changing their ways.

Still unrealistic.

"Mrs. Piff, in order for the job you paid me for to be completed to the lowest CRI level...... tomorrow you need to buy a CRI approved vacuum and make 4 passes at 1.8ft/sec on each pass to remove all the shit I left behind"

Fred although approval is granted using Nasa metering technology it should be pointed out that meters do not lie. But by choosing only one type of meter the results can be swayed in a direction to favor a given system such as to use a meter that favors the strengths off HWE. It would take several different scientific metering devises to provide conclusive testing. For instance the OP machines will have strength that HWE do not have and visa versa. Bottom line is that claims made by HWE guys or any other system are incomplete until proper testing protocol is used. Until then I will just continue to use the best meter made and that is my clients opinion.

 

[Desk Jockey]

The XRF gun was probably not the best choice or at least in the way it was used. I think they wanted the "NASA" name and hoped the best for the XRF results.

Far worse than using the XRF gun was the number of passes allowed for portables such as the Rug Doctor compared those for a TM. I thought it was 11-2? Really not a fair result.

It would be like letting Mardie spend hours with his soap box and only minutes with HWE.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Mardie choke on this!


http://www.fibre2fashion.com/news/textile-news/newsdetails.aspx?news_id=158430

After cleaning the carpets, a meaningful reduction in allergens occurred in the carpet and the surrounding air. The carpets were cleaned using the industry recommended method, which included vacuuming, cleaning with a cleaning agent, agitation, and hot water extraction.

 

[Mardie]

Richard old news. I have this on my website and talk to my clients about this all the time. I see how you highlighted HWE and that would indicate to me that you think that HWE Is the only method that can clean carpet and hence increase the air quality. Please don't tell me you believe this or are you just funny talking again?

 

[Desk Jockey]

You sir are amazing!

It was released 10-days ago but old news to you. You either lie well or need to lie better!

I believe the opposite of what ever you do. I've found its the best way to be assured of being right!

 

[Mardie]

You sir are amazing!

It was released 10-days ago but old news to you. You either lie well or need to lie better!

I believe the opposite of what ever you do. I've found its the best way to be assured of being right!

They must have gotten it from VonSchrader because that is where I got the info from 5 years ago when I first started out I am talking about the air quality thing. BTW I am pretty sure that Shaw tweeked that article for them selves from the CRI site.

 

[Desk Jockey]

"need to lie better"





Much appreciated though......you made my day!