Thinking of buying a Hagopian Truck?

[Ben L]

Guy got a great deal

You guys covered repairs after the sale

Guy ends up saying that NOW he loves the unit

And then bitches cause his 8 year old machine isn’t operating like it came off the showroom floor


Keep doing what you’re doing Hagopian, every once in awhile you run into an unreasonable dick

Really really Radar. Once again you are misunderstanding. A post to help others is not being a bad person. Please save the drama and BS. My expecations was NOT a new truck or a reconditioned one. Just one that worked properly on day one.

I did not get that and others really should take my suggestions so they don't end up with a bad one too!

 

[FredC]

Yeah guys. Don't be a dumbass like Ben and spend 21K on a truckmount you have never seen.


j/k Ben

 

[Ben L]

Good for Hagopian to pay for some repair.

When we sell trucks we go through them to make sure everything is in working order, and have done front end or transmission repairs prior to sale. Still, we're not rebuilding them, and sometimes a customer will find something that we missed.

We do try to make it clear that a used unit may have something that fails soon after purchase that we couldn't possibly know about, and we hope that buying a clean unit for less than market price gives the buyer room to pay for the repair without being too upset about it.

Now that I read this post, I realize we've had a few misunderstandings with no preview/long distance/shipped vehicles. I'm not interested in making checklists and videos, so I may skip that kind of sale in the future.

I am not disagreeing with you. Think about this. They mentioned the idea of sales check list to me and my banker. I was assured everything worked properly and it didn't. They have to have great record keeping and if I would have ask for the service records as a suggestion a lot of issues would have been disclosed. I bought a high heat truck and was delivered one that wasn't. Yes, buying sight unseen isn't a good idea. However they tell a very good story that both myself and my banker bought into.

Therefore the reason for the post.

 

[Ben L]

Yeah guys. Don't be a dumbass like Ben and spend 21K on a truckmount you have never seen.


j/k Ben

Fred, so you are smart enough to determine

 

[FredC]

Yes

 

[Ben L]

I have never owned a new truck mount. I buy old units, knowing I will have to sink some money into them. I can do a lot of work myself and don't mind paying for what I can't. I look for bargains and know how to test for major problems. The unit I recently installed in my little box truck, I paid $500 for it. Rebuilt the kero heater for about $1000 then scrapped it. Didn't like the smoke or smell. Replaced it with a LG 3 ht High pressure heater. All told, I have less than $3500 in it and it works better than I ever expected. My little Astro Van with the CDS, I paid $3000. Needed brakes, tires and have had to flush the cooling system and heat exchangers several times to get rid of all the gunk. Maybe a fuel pump now. I am into in for less than $5500 and except for the recent fuel pump mishap, it's a great little unit. My main unit was custom built for me for about $9000. That's the closest I have been to a new unit. I have had that same unit for over 15 years, rebuilt the honda engine once. I have inspected a lot of second hand units for other cleaners and have always found issues not disclosed by the sellers. I would never buy one sight unseen or untested by some one I know and trust. I don't think people are being necessarily dishonest, the unit works good enough for them. If they were going to rebuild it, they would probably be keeping it

They lease the trucks and when the lease is up they buy them back for $1 I am told. Repaint them, say they are completely checked out, fluids changed, new belts and then sold.

Mine could not have beencompletely checked out as they claim. Thus the reason for the post and some suggestions for others to consider.

 

[Ben L]

Fred, so you are smart enough to determine

Fred, do you know how many vehicles are bought sight unseen? The far majority have have good experiences. Thus the reason for the post to give others some suggestions I would have if I did it all over again.

 

[Cleanworks]

They lease the trucks and when the lease is up they buy them back for $1 I am told. Repaint them, say they are completely checked out, fluids changed, new belts and then sold.

Mine could not have beencompletely checked out as they claim. Thus the reason for the post and some suggestions for others to consider.

I get where you are coming from. I have no idea what their buyout is when the lease is up. That depends on the down payment and the monthly payments. They are going through the trucks and making sure it meets basic requirements. Things like the heat exchanger are easy to miss. Most likely it was repaired that way for their own use. 200 degrees is acceptable. A lot of companies don't even use rinses so the chemical pumps are never checked. I don't know what they promised you but at least they stepped up to the plate and compensated you for some things. If you feel you've been hard done by, at least you've let everyone know. I would think twice about buying used units from large companies. I have inspected some and have found some gross defects. Like in tank filters that were never cleaned and were crushed beyond all recognition. You have to realize that the reason these companies are selling is because the truck and cleaning unit has outlived its usefulness and now is going to cost money to fix and repair on a regular basis. I have seen some better deals at Butler where they are selling reconditioned units. Maybe a little more expensive but a more thorough going through and reconditioning. Still not going to be like new but should give you good service with little maintenance for a little while. Glad your unit is running good now. I really like those Butlers, especially with the 210 gallon waste tanks.

 

[FB7777]

Crowded Summer Colony on the Lower Cape
By MARK FAHERTY • JUN 26, 2019
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Common Tern
CREDIT MARK FAHERTY
Just offshore of Chatham there lies a seasonal village you may not be aware of. The residents arrive promptly and noisily each May, then leave for their winter homes again around October. During their stay, they create chaos, noise, and traffic - well, air traffic at least – in pursuit of beach space and local seafood. And summer wouldn’t be the same without them. Surprise! I’m actually talking about birds. What are the odds?

Listen
Listening...

0:00
Mark Faherty and the Weekly Bird Report
Monomoy National Wildlife refuge in Chatham hosts the largest tern colony on the east coast, home to many thousands of nesting Common Terns and Laughing Gulls each summer. The young seasonal biologists at Monomoy are tasked with monitoring the success of the colony each year. Imagine asking a handful of childless millennials to keep track of 50,000 youngsters, because that’s how many chicks there are in this colony. How do they do it? The answer is they closely monitor every nest within several small, representative plots, and extrapolate to the rest of the colony in terms of how many chicks fledge.
To estimate the size of the colony, the refuge biologists organize a complete census, where no nest goes uncounted. I was lucky to be able to help with one day of the two-day annual census last week, and to get a window into the life of a seasonal biologist in the colony. The researchers actually live in the colony, in tents set up for the summer, which is apropos because intense is a good description of life among the terns. They walk out the door and there are tern nests. They go anywhere and there are tern nests. And where there are tern nests, there are angry terns with sharp bills and a vendetta.
There’s no construction going on, but the colony is definitely a hard hat area. As for entering the colony without a hard hat, well, you need that like a hole in the head. And there are 25,000 birds who would be happy to create that hole for you. I had one tern that learned to aim for a little gap between the back of the helmet and the adjustable band, which he hit with vicious precision several times. But the joke was on him, since I don’t use my head for anything.
The terns have good cause to be defensive, as there are island residents less benevolent than the biologists. Night-herons and coyotes take their share of eggs and chicks, and this year, a Snowy Owl has decided to stay for the summer. Typically these high-Arctic owls are gone from the Cape by April, so this guy is a real rebel. Apparently, the uncertainty supply of lemmings back home combined with the limitless supply of easy prey here was too good to pass up. We encountered several low hillocks where the owl had been feeding the night before, leaving behind pellets and piles of tern wings. It’s way too late for this owl to make it back to the Arctic to breed, so he may just stay for the summer. If the terns were smart, they’d follow the lead of many local landlords looking to get rid of unwanted winter tenants – they’d jack the rent way up for the summer.
It takes a while to crunch the numbers, so the final census tally won’t be in for a while. Based on past results we’re expecting somewhere north of 10 or 11,000 Common Tern nests and over 1000 Laughing Gull nests. In a typical year, each pair fledges 1.5 chicks, which is very high for a species that can live 25 years, pointing to the incredible productivity of the fish-rich waters around Chatham. To get in on the action, contact the refuge about volunteering next year. Because who doesn’t love an unpaid 14 hour day spent dodging sharp beaks in a non-stop poop storm?
You can see Mark's photo album from the 2016 census here.
--
This piece first aired in June, 2018.
TAGS:
WEEKLY BIRD REPORT

 

[Mikey P]

I have to give Ben props.

He handles you assholes with class.

 

[Brian H]

I wasn't going to comment on this, but I felt compelled to explain our side of the story. I don't want this to turn into a debate and will make one statement on our sale of a vehicle to Ben Lund in Spokane Washington and leave it at that:

He claimed the dump valve was bad, so we paid to replace it even though we had tested it with a half tank of water.

He claimed the pressure reel swivel was leaking, so we paid to replace it even though it was not leaking when it left here.

He claimed the chemical injection pump and pulsation dampener were defective, so he replaced them without even involving us. He shipped the "defective parts" back to us and we installed them on one of our trucks. They work fine and are still on that truck with no issues. We paid him $200 for that since they work fine and we can use them as back-ups. My suspicion is that he didn't know about the bleeder screw on the pulsation dampener that needs to be bled when the system is winterized. As an FYI, he also claimed that he was going to swap it out for another style chemical injection pump anyway.

The Butler MAX heat heat exchanger was not checked before it left here. We have never had an issue in the past with trucks getting to MAX heat and it is now something we will be checking in the future. We were reluctant to have a new heat exchanger sent to him because of the above issues, but finally relented and had a new one from Butler drop shipped and I agreed to pay for the installation. We were not trying to duck anything, we just needed to make sure that it was bad before paying $2,000 for a new one.

The people at Butler will attest to the fact that we were working with them the whole time to try and figure out the heat issue. They didn't have a clue and we didn't either. I decided to just replace the MAX heat exchanger since we couldn't figure anything else out. As it turned out, as you can see from Ben's picture, there was something in the coils.

We do take pride in sending out vehicles that are in good working order when they leave here. We don't run a dishonest operation and we certainly didn't try to cheat anyone. The issues with the Butler unit we sold to Ben happen to used vehicles.

Ultimately, we did all the above even though the vehicle was sold AS-IS with no warranty and we were under no obligation to do any of it.

P.S. Thank all of you who came to our company's defense.

 

[FB7777]

You’re a good man Mr Hanna

Never doubted this is how it went down

 

[Ben L]

You’re a good man Mr Hanna

Never doubted this is how it went down

Well Mr Radar, someting to think about. You mentioned you can make $350,000/yr on 1 truck running 900hrs per year. That would be billable hours of $388.88/ hr out of the truck. WOW. I wished I lived where you do!!

You would not last 2months let alone 19yrs in Spokane. So people please remember the source when he makes comments.

 

[FB7777]

yes people, please remember the source.... a guy that's been consistently making bank for 31 years

My guess is your humping 900 hours solo .... try 2 men crews and see your production rates soar



I'm just glad Brian set the record straight

 

[FredC]

To be fair, although it doesn't necessarily equate to double the cc price , the household income in your area is double that of his area.

 

[FB7777]

No doubt, and waaaay more expensive to operate out here I'm certain



It's best for Ben to deflect and attempt to discredit my statement now though



It's crystal clear now that he got lots of free NEW parts after the AS IS sale when the alleged faulty components are now working in other trucks without repairs

 

[Cleanworks]

Well Mr Radar, someting to think about. You mentioned you can make $350,000/yr on 1 truck running 900hrs per year. That would be billable hours of $388.88/ hr out of the truck. WOW. I wished I lived where you do!!

You would not last 2months let alone 19yrs in Spokane. So people please remember the source when he makes comments.

Radar does make a good point though, once you get past the insulting part. Having a 2 man crew makes you more productive, allows you to do higher quality work in less time, makes setting up\wrapping up a breeze. I am mainly a solo operation but at times I hire a couple of fellow carpet cleaners to help me on commercial jobs. It's not hard to make $300-$400 per hour and sometimes more. Even on residential, if you have a helper for set up, prespraying, agitation, moving furniture, etc, you can really fly through jobs. Allows you to do more jobs in a day, assuming you have the work. A regular hourly paid employee will more than earn his wages if trained right. Work smart, not hard like the rest of us goobers.

 

[Ben L]

Radar does make a good point though, once you get past the insulting part. Having a 2 man crew makes you more productive, allows you to do higher quality work in less time, makes setting up\wrapping up a breeze. I am mainly a solo operation but at times I hire a couple of fellow carpet cleaners to help me on commercial jobs. It's not hard to make $300-$400 per hour and sometimes more. Even on residential, if you have a helper for set up, prespraying, agitation, moving furniture, etc, you can really fly through jobs. Allows you to do more jobs in a day, assuming you have the work. A regular hourly paid employee will more than earn his wages if trained right. Work smart, not hard like the rest of us goobers.

understood, in Washington State you have 30% cost plus health insurance. sick leave, etc.even for part timers. Washington State is not a business friendly State. Thanks though.

 

[Ben L]

I wasn't going to comment on this, but I felt compelled to explain our side of the story. I don't want this to turn into a debate and will make one statement on our sale of a vehicle to Ben Lund in Spokane Washington and leave it at that:

He claimed the dump valve was bad, so we paid to replace it even though we had tested it with a half tank of water.

He claimed the pressure reel swivel was leaking, so we paid to replace it even though it was not leaking when it left here.

He claimed the chemical injection pump and pulsation dampener were defective, so he replaced them without even involving us. He shipped the "defective parts" back to us and we installed them on one of our trucks. They work fine and are still on that truck with no issues. We paid him $200 for that since they work fine and we can use them as back-ups. My suspicion is that he didn't know about the bleeder screw on the pulsation dampener that needs to be bled when the system is winterized. As an FYI, he also claimed that he was going to swap it out for another style chemical injection pump anyway.

The Butler MAX heat heat exchanger was not checked before it left here. We have never had an issue in the past with trucks getting to MAX heat and it is now something we will be checking in the future. We were reluctant to have a new heat exchanger sent to him because of the above issues, but finally relented and had a new one from Butler drop shipped and I agreed to pay for the installation. We were not trying to duck anything, we just needed to make sure that it was bad before paying $2,000 for a new one.

The people at Butler will attest to the fact that we were working with them the whole time to try and figure out the heat issue. They didn't have a clue and we didn't either. I decided to just replace the MAX heat exchanger since we couldn't figure anything else out. As it turned out, as you can see from Ben's picture, there was something in the coils.

We do take pride in sending out vehicles that are in good working order when they leave here. We don't run a dishonest operation and we certainly didn't try to cheat anyone. The issues with the Butler unit we sold to Ben happen to used vehicles.

Ultimately, we did all the above even though the vehicle was sold AS-IS with no warranty and we were under no obligation to do any of it.

P.S. Thank all of you who came to our company's defense.

Hey Brian, thanks welcome to the conversation. A few questions please. What is the right thing to do here? Personal question please. Early on you wanted this mess to go away and so did I. I made you and offer for $700 parts and you install the lower heat exchanger. Why didn't you take it? The attorney, letter to your Pres. Edmond Hagopian and this post would have never taken place!!!

Back to the right thing. I get it. I had to prove to you the heat exchanger was bad. You said the issue was heat contol valve & temp sending unit. Not. So I got Butler involved. I proved to you it was bad.

What would be your right thing to do after proof and your admitting you sold me a defective truck. Why did you keeping pushing it and not wanting to pay for other parts and labor to install lower heat exchanger? Then attorney and letters got going.

"some companies focus on the pennies and it cost them thousands"

Brian, I do not believe you and no one else should either that you did not know about the heat exchanger lines. You run a 40 truck shop and have to have emaculate records or you would loose control! According to Butler switching the lines is fairly common. Rob has been with you a long time too and he is aware of this trick I am sure.

I am not going to go through everything we have learned about this truck. Some understandable, some not. The others parts were defective no matter what he says.

Three very strong suggestions please:
1) request service records so you can make an informed decision if this is the truck for you or not
2) request their sales check out form they are so proud of
3) get it in writing

Final question Brian please. Was all this drama worth the amount of pennies you saved by not doing the right thing from the start?

I really really wished you would have taken my offer!

Just trying to help you folks and I hope your experience with Hagopian is different than mine.

 

[dealtimeman]

These are the nightmare customers you never want to deal with and we hope we never do!

“As is” and “used” does not mean “cheap but perfect”!

Disgraceful.

 

[Ben L]

These are the nightmare customers you never want to deal with and we hope we never do!

“As is” and “used” does not mean “cheap but perfect”!

Disgraceful.

Really, both of us has delt with them too. As mentioned, What is the right thing. Most of the time if statements are made "how can we make this right or what will make you happy " most people will work with you. Frankly as mentioned, I tried.

Remember here the purpose of this post. Do a bether job of research and here are some things to consider.

I was not expecting perfect, guaranteed or anything than other than working properly on day 1. We had several discussions about that with both me and my banker and we did not get that.

 

[FB7777]

You keep bringing 'your banker' like it adds credibility to your assessment of the deal


Like your banker gives a fook , you either are credit worthy or they are gonna jack you with an inflated rate


Go blow smoke up some poor bastards that don't know how finance works

And as a side note...

What kind of 19 year broke dick needs to finance an ancient truck for a measly $21k? Lmao

 

[Cleanworks]

Lots of reasons to be a broke dick carpet cleaner after many years in business. Bad marriages, bad investments, illness, fires, theft etc. I can afford to buy a new truck mount for cash. I just can't justify that kind of expense right now when my old machines work perfectly fine. It's not a one sided dispute, both sides share some blame.

 

[steve_64]

You keep bringing 'your banker' like it adds credibility to your assessment of the deal


Like your banker gives a fook , you either are credit worthy or they are gonna jack you with an inflated rate


Go blow smoke up some poor bastards that don't know how finance works

And as a side note...

What kind of 19 year broke dick needs to finance an ancient truck for a measly $21k? Lmao

Now I feel insulted. Lol

 

[steve_64]

I blew a hose from the pump to the swivel Sunday. Brian could you send me a new one? I'll do it myself to save you the labor.

Oh forget it I replaced it yesterday.

 

[Ben L]

Lots of reasons to be a broke dick carpet cleaner after many years in business. Bad marriages, bad investments, illness, fires, theft etc. I can afford to buy a new truck mount for cash. I just can't justify that kind of expense right now when my old machines work perfectly fine. It's not a one sided dispute, both sides share some blame.

Thanks for not judging like others are. At the end of the day it''s called carma. We were promised alot. It took an extreme amout of effort to effort to get some closure. Having a vehicle operate properly on day 1 is not unfair, injust, or anything else. Just good business. They had a choice to make it easy or hard. They chose the latter.

Have a great day!

 

[ruff]

Not taking side in this dispute nor passing judgement.

Concerning both sides and smart business practices: Would this be a good time to extol the virtue of managing expectations and clear communications?!

 

[Kenny Hayes]

Like Damon said toward the front, toxic thread.

 

[Acp]

understood, in Washington State you have 30% cost plus health insurance. sick leave, etc.even for part timers. Washington State is not a business friendly State. Thanks though.

actually its not bad... California I hear is much worse. For us to pay a tech $20/hr it comes out to roughly $23 per hour in WA, thats with workers comp, etc.

 

[hogjowl]

I think you’re all idiots