question for other Sapphire 1200 owners

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Mikey P

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did somebody ask Marty for his opinion?




I want to apologize to John Olsen for a lame joke that I removed from a few posts back.

I often forget it's not just us barflys reading this stuff.


Olsen is a top notch guy running a top notch biz and I support him every way I can.









and as for you guys passing judgment on me based on one sided opinions/facts, grow up... the world is not always a David and Goliath story.
 

Goomer

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I fail to see how anyone can judge a 4.8 Vortec engines ability to provide enough heat to an exchanger to maintain a desires temp, based on it's displacement alone.

Assuming the entire system is without issues, the rpm is dialed in, and the ideal thermostat is in play, why would it not be able to produce enough heat??

It's obviously not a monster V8, but I don't see how it is in any way underpowered for this application..
 

Goomer

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Olsen is a top notch guy running a top notch biz and I support him every way I can.

Despite what I find to be his somewhat extreme views on certain topics, I must say I, I would not hesitate for one second to make ANY major purchase from him, regardless of his distance from me.

With that said, I am a little surprised that he has not chimed in on this yet.........which may be another indicator of what a smart guy he is..
 

Ray Burnfield

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Your running off the vans engine it's going to be able to heat the exchanger. Regardless of the size of the engine. There isn't a direct drive made that's not capable of acceptable cleaning temperatures.
The fix on Dave's machine was the right adjustments and NO broken or defective parts were part of the problem.
The most helpful thing we learn from this thread is>>>>>>>>
If you restrict the vacuum after you fire up any Heat exchange Truckmount you will get to cleaning temperature
FASTER!!!!
 

GCCLee

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Too many know it all waiting to castrate him..


Lock it up before the useful info is buried.

Hate to see it go to waste since these keypeckers cant seem to make separate threads with all the extra discussions!
 

knoxclean

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Exactly Ray. 4.8 is fine they just had to figure out some adjustments to make for the machine to run the same as the 6.0. None of this was about the machine. I have been buying tms for 20 years. I know there will be glitches and I was not surprised when I had an issue with this one. I knew it just needed someone to look at it and go through it and the fix would be simple. Everyone wants to make this about the machine and it had nothing to do with that. I am glad I bought it. I am happy with it and It performs the way I had hoped it would. I just had a problem getting someone to look at it. With that said I would recommend this machine to anyone but and this is a BIG BUT, do not buy one if you do not have a close relationship with a local dealer that will work with you if issues come up. Sapphire has a great group of engineers with great designs, they have good service people that puts together a good machine and they have a good marketing dept. They just forgot to build a customer service dept. for their company.
 

Desk Jockey

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Prochem is the same way.

Your relationship is with the distributor you buy it from, not the manufacturer. If you have a problem you deal with the distributor, if you call the manufacturer they refer you back to the distributor.
 

mirf

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I think it is a very good machine and you made a good choice. I still enjoy the use of my WM 1200 12 years later. It was what I started with and it still works well.
I like the relationship I have with Jon Don in langhorn Pa. The team there is top notch and use them for service and supplies.
That being said if I had a reason to travel and buy a unit from someone else I would tell them upfront and expect the same service I do now.
If my client goes elsewhere for a cleaning and comes back they can expect quality service with no problems.

Bottom line is

It is my business
It is my money
It is my decision.

I do buy from other suppliers and manufactures. I do buy from some if not most of the people I have meet here and I love winning stuff from the auction.

While I have not meet John in person and I felt like writing a trip to Utah off I would do it. I know the job would be done well and Glen and his team at Langhorn would service it timely and professionally.

I do think that when Buying a PTO it is a good idea to take the spec.sheet and equipment list to the person who is going to make the install prior to purchase
to see if it is compatible with the unit or they have any recommendations.
 

Willy P

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Prochem is the same way.

Your relationship is with the distributor you buy it from, not the manufacturer. If you have a problem you deal with the distributor, if you call the manufacturer they refer you back to the distributor.

Pathetic, gutless, useless, and a shitty way of selling your products. When the manufacturer flat out refuses to back their products they're not worth dealing with. What an utter pile of bullshit. Fook that, I got told to go whistle by Prochem and their local tits on a bull distributor here over a 5 gallon pail of chemicals. Because of that short sighted idiocy, they got SFA of my business. I take great pride in the fact of telling someone about my experience and them not buying a pc tm.

If they don't take care of somebody over a 5 gallon pail of chemicals, why would anyone buy a truck mount from them?
 
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Ray Burnfield

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I can't believe that the distributor would not exchange your pail. We would have done it without question. If the product was bad we would have hammered the manufacturer for a replacement.
Why would I want to piss you off over a pail of product? Who ever told you that they would not make it right must have been having a bad day.
 

Desk Jockey

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Pathetic, gutless, useless, and a shitty way of selling your products. When the manufacturer flat out refuses to back their products they're not worth dealing with. What an utter pile of bullshit. Fook that, I got told to go whistle by Prochem and their local tits on a bull distributor here over a 5 gallon pail of chemicals. Because of that short sighted idiocy, they got SFA of my business. I take great pride in the fact of telling someone about my experience and them not buying a pc tm.

If they don't take care of somebody over a 5 gallon pail of chemicals, why would anyone buy a truck mount from them?
Willy think of it like this, you go to Sears and buy an item. It's damaged or doesn't work the way you thought it should. Who do you complain to, the store or the manufacturer? The store of course. They are your connection, the retailer is responsible for customer service.

The same in our industry, the manufacturer is basically out of the loop on the customer level. You didn't buy it from them you bought it from one of their representatives.

That distributor should have given you a new pail no questions asked. Look at the bad blood it caused them and the loss of sales. Foolish on their part!
 
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Ray Burnfield

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What Sapphire did was way over the top. I would not expect them or any other manufacturer to do what was ultimately done to resolve this issue.
Willy is a MBr way did you not get him a new pail? Just kidding!!!!
 

knoxclean

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Richard "Willy think of it like this, you go to Sears and buy an item. It's damaged or doesn't work the way you thought it should. Who do you complain to, the store or the manufacturer? The store of course. They are your connection, the retailer is responsible for customer service."


But what if the local Sears didn't want to take care of the problem because you bought it from a Sears 2000 mile away?



 

Ray Burnfield

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David that is a problem that the manufacturer needs to address. I don't think I would be a dealer very long if as a authorized dealer I refused to do warranty work because the customer did not buy the machine from me.
 

Jim Martin

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What did I miss here.........they did take care of your problem....not as fast as you would of liked ..but seeing how you started posting on a weekend..and then it takes time for people to determine what was going on and then start putting things together...seems to me like the problem got solved in a timely manner.......

Taking every factor into consideration......from where you bought it and where you are today...IMO...you were taken care of pretty damn well.....

It's fixed.......machine is temping up.......your cleaning with it...you got what you needed done.....JFC....let it go.........

BTW...you can sit at my table and I will be happy to buy you a beer...but lets talk about the weather...this conversation has been beat to death...........
 

Ray Burnfield

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Jim, I disagree. David should be able to take his machine to any authorized dealer to get it fixed regardless of where it was purchased. He should not have been given the runaround.
David drove 6 hrs to get the problem taken care of and it wasn't. If the reason it wasn't fixed was because it wasn't purchased there than that's a problem.
 

Desk Jockey

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Richard "Willy think of it like this, you go to Sears and buy an item. It's damaged or doesn't work the way you thought it should. Who do you complain to, the store or the manufacturer? The store of course. They are your connection, the retailer is responsible for customer service."


But what if the local Sears didn't want to take care of the problem because you bought it from a Sears 2000 mile away?



That is a problem that shouldn't happen but yes I can see where it could.

Many moons ago we sold truck mounts, a cleaner would price us then buy from someone in Missouri or Texas. Mostly because the could avoid sales tax here in Kansas, unethical but we lost many a sale back in those days.

Now when that cleaner had a problem and he was just minutes or an hour or two away from us he would expect us to warranty it for him. :eekk:

Hey, made zero off the guy, he used us for a price and made a business decision to go out of state for the purchase. We were strong arm forced by the manufacturer to diagnose and repair these units. We were not happy to do it but were forced to do so. In later years they did all they could to make the situation better by giving you $300.00 when a unit was sold in your territory. Nice when you never saw the unit, a bitch when it came back repeatedly due to operators with no understanding of how a TM works.

We hated warranty work on units we didn't sell
, we heard their complaints, fixed their issues and bit a hole in our tongue's and sent them on there way.

We were compensated for the mechanics time but at a rate set by the manufacturer. These were no profit jobs, for cleaners that were not our customers. They didn't support our distributorship yet were were required to help them in there time of need. They added nothing to our bottom line, just took up time from the mechanic and for us to open up after hours or on weekends what ever the customer wanted. :madd:

You got a raw deal but Sapphire made it right for you, when it really should have been the distributor's responsibility. Not that I would expect John to send someone that far either.

I know its a tough lesson to learn and I don't blame you for making the deal, especially if you've never had to live though that kind of experience before.

Hopefully you can put this all behind you and chalk it up to experience. Good luck with the truck, it really look like a nice one.

I did see a photo of an old 1200 and it had (2)-2.5 containers that sat in the door opening. You could probably buy the holders and some one fabricate a couple of legs beneath for support. It would put the jugs at easy reach and that space isn't used anyway.

Thank gawd we got out of that business. You think being a cleaner is tough, a distributor has it far tougher and I feel for all of them. We should be thankful there are people out there willing to go though so much for us. Thank god for distributors!
 
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FB7777

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Well said Richard, perhaps Sapphire should put a policy like compensation for the local distributor in place.

For all the reasons you described , I would very reluctantly provide service to someone that bypassed my territory

Certainly wouldn't be high priority, in fact I would schedule them farther out than the distance they traveled to purchase the machine

As a side note...

I wonder if Tennessee is going to got the sales tax on this unit:stir:
 

knoxclean

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Jim you missed a bunch of posts. Long before I posted here I was trying to fix the problem over the phone with Sapphire. We could not trouble shoot it so they sent me to Nashville so a distributor of SS could look at it and address the problem. This is where my biggest beef with the whole situation comes into play. Please pay attention everyone. I drove 6 hours round trip to Nashville only to have the machine glossed over. No part of the machine was looked at as far as the heating system. No water temps were taken, no HX were looked at, nothing was looked at as far as the van or set up. The machine was started let to run 10 minutes. They felt the blower "by hand" and it was determined that the preheated water from the van was going into a cold HX from the blower. I was told that these big blowers take a lot to heat up so in order to get the heat I needed to get a block of wood and block the vac port for 15 minutes before each job to pre heat the blower. He proceeded to show me how to do that and sent me on my way. I was left thinking wow had I known that is how we are going to have to run the machine I wished I made a different choice but if that is what we need to do I guess we'll do it. What choice did I have. It turned out my techs were not able to make this fix work most of the time and it was frustrating for me. The more I thought about it the more it made me mad that the whole system was not checked when I took it out there. Why did they not do the stuff Ron Coiling did and go through it completely? This is when I found out I was in no mans land because I made the mistake of buying a machine from somebody 2000 miles away. Nashville didn't refuse to work on it they just didn't want to take the time to look at the whole problem. Or thats the way it seemed to me. From then on SS made it worse by not wanting to follow up with me. Again I'll take the blame for not buying local. I have got beat up over that fact here enough. I think thats not a good way to do business because from here on out I doubt John will want to sell a machine to anyone unless they are in his back yard nor would anyone here want to buy from him.

Jim you are a mechanical guy would you have approached the problem like it was handled in Nashville? I know the way you are from the posts. You would break it down piece by piece and systematically go through everything until you located the problem. Would you not expect that from someone you take a machine in to be looked at from?

It just kills me how easy it is for you guys to just accept someone bending you over but after the pounding if they give you a kiss you should be grateful.
 
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FB7777

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It just kills me how easy it is for you guys to just accept someone bending you over but after the pounding if they give you a kiss you should be grateful.
Are you referring to your personal situation with Sapphire or how you bypassed your local guy that you expect to fix your problem?

Was it really worth going cross country to get a better deal on the unit and skip the sales tax?
 
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Unless you know differently, accusing him of trying to dodge sales tax seems wrong to me. IF I were to purchase a new unit I absolutely would not purchase from the local distributor regardless of cost and it would have zero to do with sales tax which by the way I would still pay just like I do with the 50k per year in internet purchases already I make. I assume David and the rest of you business owners pay tax on out of state purchases.

I would however deal with problems myself.
 

hogjowl

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Mikey is taking credit for resolving this issue. How convenient.

It's a fact that these bulletin boards are good for holding mfg.'s feet to the fire and making them do right by the cleaner, who has been the odd man out for far too long.

I don't see David dragging out this thread. It's unfair of Jim Martin to suggest otherwise. The only reason I can see for him continuing to post in this thread is because his name and reputation keep being brought up and he feels he needs to set the record straight.

I think we all know he should have bought it from someone else. That has already been established countless times on this thread. For all of you who are planning to mention that again, please go back and re-read at least one post on each page saying so already.
 

Desk Jockey

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Unless you know differently, accusing him of trying to dodge sales tax seems wrong to me. IF I were to purchase a new unit I absolutely would not purchase from the local distributor regardless of cost and it would have zero to do with sales tax which by the way I would still pay just like I do with the 50k per year in internet purchases already I make. I assume David and the rest of you business owners pay tax on out of state purchases.

I would however deal with problems myself.
I never meant to insinuate that, if it came across that way I apologize to David.

I was simply stating what happened to us when were were selling units and why those individuals chose another distributor despite the proximity to us.
 
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