Which one of those fabric protectors are recommended?

Desk Jockey

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Oz what amount was sprayed? An item or two? The whole carpeted or tile area?

I have concerns anytime we are using OMS in the home or business. Its discussed with our techs prior and with the home or business owner too.

While those late night "I need to know what you sprayed" calls have only been a few over the decades, my luck is bound to run out playing that game.
 

Larry Cobb

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No, you are missing the point. While I do have concerns about out tech applying product. He can easily be protected with a full face respirator and organic vapor cartridge.
Its the client that I am concerned about, and not necessarily the exposure but the perception I am using products that could be hazardous to them or their family.
Even more is the possibility of issues, real or imagined related to the products we used or exposed them to.
We have pollution insurance but deductibles are expensive. We manage risk by using as little solvents in the home as necessary to be effective. No fogging, spraying or large concentration without ventilation and the occupants being out of the area.

Richard; . . We distribute thousands of products every year.

By far the greatest concern among consumers, is due to antimicrobials.

In conversations we have had with various Poison Control Centers,

the disinfectants and or sanitizers always number the greatest percentage of calls to their centers.
 
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Tom Forsythe

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Regardless of how each of us personally feel about the use of solvent protectors, the government sees the spraying of solvents as harmful to the environment and hazardous to human health. As regulations increase, we should be prepared to use water-carried protectors. Scott and I wrote this post together this morning.


The government has restricted use of solvent based protectors for a long time in various states. California has effectively banned solvent based fluorochemicals since only 1% of non-compliant VOCs is allowed. The available solvents that can be used have a nasty smell or are unsafe to be sprayed (acetone). 17 other states require 40% non-volatile solvent to be used in the formula. This type of formulation created issues for cleaners as it took longer than water to dry. In 32 other states, we sell a great product called Maxim Fine Fabric without this low volatile solvent.


Some of the health and safety issues discussed above were some of the reasons for the regulations.


Here is what the California regulations state:

https://www.arb.ca.gov/consprod/regs/2015/article_2_final_1-22-15.pdf


Page 36


“Fabric Protectant” means a product designed or labeled to be applied to fabric substrates to protect the surface from soiling from dirt or other impurities or to reduce absorption of liquid into the fabric’s fibers. “Fabric Protectant” does not include “Waterproofer;” products labeled for use solely on leather; pigmented products that are designed or labeled to be used primarily for coloring; products used for construction, reconstruction, modification, structural maintenance or repair of fabric substrates; or products that renew or restore fabric. “Fabric Protectant” also does not include “Clear Coating” or “Vinyl/Fabric/Leather/Plastic Coating” as defined in section 94521(a).


Page 64 Fabric Protector limited to 1% VOC since 12/31/2010


The regulations have not been enforced as competitors have not turned in violators. In talking with regulators they rely on others to report violations and do not spend a lot of time on enforcement. HOWEVER, THE REGULATORS ARE NOW GOING AFTER THE MANUFACTURERS. My supplier has ceased making a solvent based fluorochemical as of 12/31/2015. He has a 2 to 3 year supply, but once that runs out there will be no more raw material available to make solvent based fluorochemicals.


THE EPA UNDER THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT APPROVED THE MANDATED C6 FLUOROCHEMICAL CHAIN (C8 chain was phased out over several years to be replaced by C6) CHANGE BY THE END OF 2015. CURRENTLY THE EPA HAS NO PLANS TO APPROVE THE C6 CHAIN EFFECTIVELY ENDING SOLVENT BASED FLUOROCHEMICALS IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS UNLESS THERE IS AN ADMINISTRATION WHICH WILL OVERRULE SOME OF THE EPA REGULATIONS. (confirmed this morning that nothing has changed) IN SHORT, NO MANUFACTURER CAN PRODUCE SOLVENT BASED FLUOROCHEMICAL AT THIS POINT, THEY CAN ONLY SELL WHAT WAS MADE BEFORE THE END OF 2015.
 

ruff

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I understand the political concern about a solvent odor. Easily handled by asking the customer if it will bother them.

The concern about inhaling protectant or carrier is a sign of proper concern for tech and customer. It is a valid concern if you're going to be spraying above your head, but not if you're applying the product correctly. "Drift" is quite small if you use low pressure and a large jet, even better if the jet puts the product close to the textile. We've had to test this at the direction of the Seattle Fire Department. The verdict from the industrial hygienist: No fire issue, no health issue. Respirators not required.

Could not disagree more!
Regardless of one's political correctness and evidently B.H. prides himself in not being PC. It should be an issue and rightfully so.
It would be foolhardy not to practice safety.

Boggles your average tree hugger's mind.
 
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Desk Jockey

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I agree Ofer. Just because we may not see it as an issue doesn't mean out clients won't.

Error on the side of safety and stay out of trouble.

Thank you Tom and Scott! :cool:
 
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ruff

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Matt, make Bryan's day. Do not wear a respirator when applying protectors.

Soon after you'll be able to add another thread to go along with your "When did you guys start having shoulder problems?" It will be- "When did you guys start having lung and other serious health issues?" :winky:
 
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Mikey P

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is this nuevo?

pm-3000-scotchgardtm-tile-grout-mulit-surface-sealer.jpg
 

BIG WOOD

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Who, if anyone, carries both a solvent protector and a water based protector? I really like the solvent protector, but It's not as profitable as a water based. So I thought it might be good to offer the solvent based on carpet that's nearly in brand new condition and use just the water based on carpet that's near the end of it's cycle. Does anyone do that?
 

Jimmy L

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Larry I ordered a gallon of sealer on march 28 online and I have yet to receive it. ??????????
 

BIG WOOD

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Oh...
Me.
How do you offer them to your customers? Since the solvent protector costs more, do you sell it at a higher price? Or do you offer it the same way I was thinking with different types of carpet to determine which one you'll use?
 

PrimaDonna

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We offer both. The only solvent version we offer is Fiber ProTector, but that also comes in water based version. All of our Fiber ProTector options are significantly more expensive than the Scotchgard and Maxim, which we also offer.

Scotchgard is $40 per room.
Maxim is $55 per room with one year spot and spill warranty. We come back to spot clean for free. If it's a qualifying spot and we cannot remove, we will refund the price of maxim in for that room/area.
Fiber ProTector is between $2.00-$3.00 sq. ft depending on type of fiber and density. (wall to wall vs. oriental wool rug as an example).

Keep in mind, you can only apply a solvent based to dry carpet/fibers. For our clients that want Fiber ProTector and need the carpet or upholstery cleaned first, we then apply the water based version. If its a new piece or doesn't need to be cleaned, we apply the solvent based version.
 

Larry Cobb

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Our solvent-based Ultraseal can be applied to damp fibers.

Since synthetic fibers are generally made from petroleum,

they have a natural affinity for solvent-based products compared to water.

This allows them to displace water on the fiber.

Also, avoids the change in hand on the fiber, while water-based products leave a film that makes the carpet feel harsh.
 
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BIG WOOD

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We offer both. The only solvent version we offer is Fiber ProTector, but that also comes in water based version. All of our Fiber ProTector options are significantly more expensive than the Scotchgard and Maxim, which we also offer.

Scotchgard is $40 per room.
Maxim is $55 per room with one year spot and spill warranty. We come back to spot clean for free. If it's a qualifying spot and we cannot remove, we will refund the price of maxim in for that room/area.
Fiber ProTector is between $2.00-$3.00 sq. ft depending on type of fiber and density. (wall to wall vs. oriental wool rug as an example).

Keep in mind, you can only apply a solvent based to dry carpet/fibers. For our clients that want Fiber ProTector and need the carpet or upholstery cleaned first, we then apply the water based version. If its a new piece or doesn't need to be cleaned, we apply the solvent based version.
I like the idea of offering the warranty for the solvent based protector only. Since the customer doesn't know the price difference of the two, that makes sense. I used a whole case of CR-10 on damp carpet and all my customers were happy with the turnout of it. I just wasn't happy with the profit I didn't make. But with your price structure, I have good intentions on getting some more solvent protector. Thanks. I don't think my prices will be as high as yours, but they'll be increased.
 
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