Using the plated Heat exchanger on air cooled engines

BIG WOOD

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To replace the oil cooler on the air cooled machines:

With this heat exchanger to heat the water and cool down the oil much faster

Or this oil cooler


Or just adding this feature, instead of replacing it might be all that's needed
More reliable heat and a cooler engine for longer life seems like something that needs to be tested. It just needs to be plumbed where cool water needs to be the first entry into that heat exchanger, then enters in the water box, then the water pump, then the exhaust heat exchanger.

With that setup, the theory suggests that cool water interacting with the engine oil should cool the oil down faster than room temperature air outside, giving longer life to the engine.

Is any of the big wig manufacturers lurking on here to prove this theory wrong? Or would this make the engine last longer and help the smaller machines perform better which would hurt your sales goals?
 
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FredC

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When you were engineering this how much time did you devote to learning about small engine design, how much oil is in a small engine, how that amount and flow relates to heat exchange, optimal oil temperature, added complexity (temp control of oil), additional oil volume, etc

What was the temperature of the oil under load when you tested it on your air cooled machines?


your best bet if the oil temps are too high is probably the cooler and one of those "stupid computer fans"
 

BIG WOOD

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When you were engineering this how much time did you devote to learning about small engine design, how much oil is in a small engine, how that amount and flow relates to heat exchange, optimal oil temperature, added complexity (temp control of oil), additional oil volume, etc

What was the temperature of the oil under load when you tested it on your air cooled machines?


your best bet if the oil temps are too high is probably the cooler and one of those "stupid computer fans"
Adding an oil cooler would require more oil to be added to fill the cooler which would increase the life of the oil

My experience with air cooled engines and oil temps getting too high is the manuals of these truckmounts say change the oil at 100hrs. The air cooled engines start burning oil around the 70hr mark which tells me these engines get too hot. So an oil cooler/heat exchanger is worth setting up a test.
 

BIG WOOD

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Right now, my only concern is would it affect the oil pressure on circulation in and out of the engine for proper lubrication.
 

BIG WOOD

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Peer pressure hits me hard

I do have an old cub cadet mower. I might experiment with that engine. Should I test the plaited heat exchanger or marine oil cooler?
 

FredC

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Peer pressure hits me hard

I do have an old cub cadet mower. I might experiment with that engine. Should I test the plaited heat exchanger or marine oil cooler?


whichever is easier for you to fit up I guess


is the engine in the cub cadet EFI and sending oil temp signals to the ecu?
 

Dolly Llama

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Is any of the big wig manufacturers lurking on here to prove this theory wrong? Or would this make the engine last longer and help the smaller machines perform better which would hurt your sales goals?


Steamway Powermatic/2100 had a simple system.
a coil of 1/4" copper tubing routed thru the water box (which is always cold water)

no clue if it made a difference or not.
First PM got over 6K hours on engine (the big blue cast iron Kohler)
Second PM with Commander Pro Kohler got 4K

..L.T.A.
 
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Cleanworks

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Steamway Powermatic/2100 had a simple system.
a coil of 1/4" copper tubing routed thru the water box (which is always cold water)

no clue if it made a difference or not.
First PM got over 6K hours on engine (the big blue cast iron Kohler)
Second PM with Commander Pro Kohler got 4K

..L.T.A.
My last slide in used an 18hp Honda. Got 5000 hours before I had it rebuilt.
 
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FredC

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First PM got over 6K hours on engine (the big blue cast iron Kohler)
Second PM with Commander Pro Kohler got 4K

..L.T.A.


probably those nearly 1 billion* revolutions over it's lifetime .....and Matt wants you to run it faster






*more than most cars will see in their lifetimes
** as stated previously much higher percentage of max rpm used (to make power needed in small package)
 
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BIG WOOD

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didn't you just buy a new zero turn?


or go snag a cheap HF engine


I beginning to question your commitment to this...
None of my engines has an oil cooler on it like the kohlers do on the truckmounts.

I'm not gonna buy a $1k engine from HF just to test.
 
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Devpro Tom did his VWTM like this.. Using his oil cooler into the fresh water supply box to cool it down and preheat the incoming water as well..

It seems you like us kicking you in the nuts.. :lol:

I’m sure it’ll work somewhat, but is the juice worth the squeeze?
 
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BIG WOOD

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Devpro Tom did his VWTM like this.. Using his oil cooler into the fresh water supply box to cool it down and preheat the incoming water as well..

It seems you like us kicking you in the nuts.. :lol:

I’m sure it’ll work somewhat, but is the juice worth the squeeze?
I’m just stirring up reasoning behind the manufacturers’ decisions they make on designing our machines.

For 20years, they use the same concept with air cooled truckmount engines and it took someone like Tom to add in the oil cooler/water heater.

Yet the truckmounts still overheat due to shitty air flow when there’s a steady flow of cool water entering these machines that can be transformed into preheating the water and cooling down the components.

You see a common complaint with the phrase “back pressure” being the cause of problems, (my blower oil seal recently) yet they still include the blower exhaust in the heat exchanger system. Have they ever tested the engine oil cooler being the initial heat exchanger instead of the blower exhaust?
 
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BIG WOOD

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Another example

Have they tried submerging the exhaust silencer (if they could properly seal it) in a heat exchanger container to help heat the water and absorb the sound?

No back pressure, less sound, cooler temp surrounding parts. The options are out there. Why aren’t they trying these options?
 

BIG WOOD

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Those two suggestions could improve the efficiency and life of our machines if they succeeded in designing them

And for the price of these machines today…they have the funds.
 
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BIG WOOD

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19years in to this business and 6 truckmounts owned and I’m constantly wrenching on these machines. Only 2 of those 6 were purchased used

I’m seeing these designs being so outdated and they focused on led lights and spaceship designs??

Sure, they FINALLY put a kubota on the 870, but how many other engines did they go through to make that decision? I don’t see that as being any special design.
 
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Dolly Llama

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Have they ever tested the oil cooler being the initial heat exchanger instead of the blower exhaust?

Not enough oil in one to make a penny's worth of sol temp difference.



Another example

Have they tried submerging the exhaust silencer (if they could properly seal it) in a heat exchanger container to help heat the water and absorb the sound?

No back pressure, less sound, cooler temp surrounding parts. The options are out there. Why aren’t they trying these options?


they're not rocket ships, Woody
Don't over think it.
If you want to slow down the heat related wear item stuff , add more forced air, not more components to the TM.
(and make sure everything isn't "piled up around" the TM so air CAN move)


..L.T.A.
 

BIG WOOD

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Not enough oil in one to make a penny's worth of sol temp difference.






they're not rocket ships, Woody
Don't over think it.
If you want to slow down the heat related wear item stuff , add more forced air, not more components to the TM.
(and make sure everything isn't "piled up around" the TM so air CAN move)


..L.T.A.
Oil coolers come in different sizes.
 

Nomad74

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Oil coolers come in different sizes.
Matt, Oil coolers are a common thing. If you want to put one on, then just put one on. Not sure why you are going all Joseph Rogers on this one. As far as the noise goes, many TM's use lawn mower type motors. No muffler sound deadening will help that because much of the noise comes from the engine crank case itself. Mower engines aren't built like car engines. The casings are thin and let a lot of noise through. I found this out with my Amtex.

If you want quiet, get a CDS or Butler then put something on the blower exhaust.
 
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Rob Grady

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Those two suggestions could improve the efficiency and life of our machines if they succeeded in designing them

And for the price of these machines today…they have the funds.
Just yank a 300hp SeaDoo engine into your Buggy with a water-cooled pipe and have continous flow from your fresh tank.
 
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Jimmy L

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Just add a car electric radiator fan to the front of the machine to force air thru it
 
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BIG WOOD

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won't matter if additional volume is 10 qts of oil.
you won't generate enough oil heat to make a penny's peso's worth of difference in sol temps




..L.T.A.
The main purpose isn’t to generate more heat. It’s to cool down the oil and improve longevity of the engine
 

BIG WOOD

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I didn’t know that would be a problem. I didn’t think marine oil coolers or the plated heat exchanger would cause that issue. It’s not ice cold
 

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