The new expectations of Mohawk

[leesenter]

Just finished an inspector's symposium in Lake Tahoe. We were given the latest by the Mohawk Commercial service techs. You will love this, no citrus products of any kind allowed on their products or you have voided the warranty. I confronted them about citrus gels being okay and even though they admitted they are probably harmless if used correctly they will still void the warranty.
No rotary machines of any kind allowed, including Cimex. Dual rotating brushes are okay.
The use of CRI SOA products and systems although recommended are not compulsory.
Should be interesting how the Cimex guys react.

 

[TimP]

Its all just another way for them to not be liable. I've also said this before if there is a problem that the warranty will honor its gonna happen in 6 months or less. I assume its just for stain protection. Also I'd like to see them prove that you used citrus on the carpet since a simple OJ spill will add citrus to the carpet.

Anyways in my opinion past 6-12 months warranty don't mean anything anyway.

 

[RThode]

What is their logic against citrus based cleaners?

It's the same old battle with the Cimex. Does this also include RX20 will void warranty?

Rick Thode

 

[Hoody]

They're afraid the citrus based cleaners will delaminate the backing and or strip and protective coating off. So basically if you come across a really soiled CGD carpet you can't use any citrus boosters which is going to suck.

 

[billyeadon]

They may also be concerned about the VOC levels of delimonene. Although it is natural it still has relatively high numbers for VOCs. As for the Cimex and rotaries Tandus (C&A) has banned them for a few years.

It is interesting that everyone was up in arms when Shaw discouraged the use of bonnets, they did not void any warranties. Now they are proponents of encap when it is extracted every few times. How the tide changes.

Whether you follow all of the mills recommendations you should at least be aware for your own information.

 

[Ron Werner]

I can see the reasoning behind it. Bad cleaners.
Guys that will use a rotary (Cimex or RX20) and beat the crap out of the carpet
and use a citrus product and not rinse it.

That being said, it all comes down to the tech, not the products or equipment

I wonder how they feel about the Rug Dr??

 

[leesenter]

The citrus will also cause some of their specialty backings to swell and cause bubbling.

It was very interesting listening to them talk about their specialty backings especially Unibond.

They are on a mission to spread knowledge on how to install and inspect their commercial products. They are holding at least two seminars a month till the end of 2010. They are in the process of eliminating both the Durkin and Mohawk names on the commercial side and going mainly with Bigelow, Lees and Karastan.

They are saying no to RX20 too Rick.

They are going as far as saying that with their stain resist treatments that the end user will only have to use water to remove most stains.

The latest news has not quite been updated on the website but it is imminent.


http://www.mohawkind.com

 

[Jimmy L]

RICK TIME TO START SELLING HOT DOG STANDS.

I'M AFRAID THERE IS NO WHERE TO USE A CIMEX ON ANY TYPE OF CARPET.

 

[Ron Werner]

clarification
were they talking residential, commercial, or both?

 

[sweendogg]

Commercial

 

[joe harper]

This could be one of the PROBLEMS..... :shock:

Fellow compeditor of mine was having employee problems..."Former Chem-Dry"dude..
So I loan him one of my Tech's for a day...

My Tech call's me at 12:00..And says...I can't do this.. :shock:
I ask him what the problem was..?
He said they don't pre-vac..They won't turn their RX20 above 250 psi... :roll:

I said to him, "just try to get through the day."
He then said, " I am feeling sick.." I then ask him what was wrong..?
He said the pre-spray was gagging him..."I ask what are they using?"

GET THIS.!!!!!.......32oz of Ulta-Pac + 64 oz of Citrus Solve..Per 5 qt. Hydra-Force.. :shock:


Can You BELIEVE THAT... :?:

 

[sweendogg]

Hope chemdry doesn't find out.. didn't think they were supposed to anything excpet to one step clean with the Natural! I'm sorry but that's not Chem Dry that's chem kill!

 

[joe harper]

It is AMAZING how many former CHEM-LIE franchise owner's LAND in FL.

Once the get on their own.....they change almost nothing but their JUICE.... :roll:

Why even run a RX 20..... if the psi is never over 200....... :shock:

 

[joe harper]

Sorry Lee,

Didn't mean to hi-jack your thread...Thank's for the info...Very helpful..

It just amazed me that someone would ABUSE dillution rates..to that EXTREEM.. :roll:

This type of abuse...always takes a useful tool ....away from responsible cleaners..

 

[sweendogg]

Woops!!! I guess I didn't see the former chemdry part... oh wells. still an awful lot of chems to be loading up.

 

[Willy P]

Most of the warranty work I've seen can be "chalked up" to uneven dye methods and side to side shading, actual physical or pattern defects. Or dumb cleaners. Maybe we should tell Mohawk how to make carpets. Lee , I know you inspect more than I do, but do you really think this is going to go any further than the old Stainmaster program from the 80's did? If the end user can save a ton of cash by cimexing, it won't matter. :wink:

 

[Willy P]

Hope chemdry doesn't find out.. didn't think they were supposed to anything excpet to one step clean with the Natural! I'm sorry but that's not Chem Dry that's chem kill!

Once parent Home Depot whines a bit, with the amount of carpet they sell, changes will be imminent.

 

[RThode]

If there backing is that sensitive to a little bit of citrus, I can only imagine that other types of solvents would also void the warranty. I understand that over application of any product in the hands of a flunky could cause damage to anything, but to say zero citrus, seems a little over protective.

Hey Jimmy, I think you have the perfect idea. Let's design a combination hot dog cart/self contained extractor. We can sell them a dog and then follow them around to cleanup all the ketchup and mustard spills. We'll make a killing!

Rick Thode

 

[Larry Cobb]

Hi Lee;

Thanks for the heads-up.

Another concern of they have is the residue left by some d-Limonene formulations.

Some formulations have lots of extra soil-attracting surfactants.

d-Limonene itself, has some residue.

Larry

 

[Jimmy L]

Rick I think we're on to something give me a call.

:shock:

 

[Ron Werner]

and depending on the hotdogs, you can do dead body removal as well when they keel over from heart attack!!

GET THIS.!!!!!.......32oz of Ulta-Pac + 64 oz of Citrus Solve..Per 5 qt. Hydra-Force.. :shock:

If this is how "most" cleaners are cleaning, its no wonder they want to ban things. Cleaners like this mess everything up for the ones that know what the hec they're doing.

 

[sweendogg]

I agree Ron.. like half of the half brains that commented on your video. I took a half hour to read through them all.. took that long to get through some of their dense replies. I just don't get it. They think they can throw a gallon of chem at it and a bajillion wet strokes with oober hot strokes.. skip the vacuum and make it "look" just as clean just so they can get their volume job quota in..... well to each their own!

As for Mohawk, or any carpet mill. They have 95% of their issues because they run carpet through the machines at speeds that most of us couldn't keep up with on a bicyle. That carpet when they crank it up can be flying by the inspector at 35 mph plus. (I couldn't believe how fast when we took our plant tour.) The electronic eye quality control misses half of the issues let alone the three guys holding the stop button watching this stuff fly by. They need to concentrate on making better q uality carpet and stop assuming worse case scenario cleaner situations so they can clean there hands of anywarranty issues.

:roll: stepping off my soap box now! sorry.

 

[Ron Werner]

how can they "make" a carpet at 35mph~!?

 

[sweendogg]

2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3EABJg_as42]

 

[Mikey P]

.32oz of Ulta-Pac + 64 oz of Citrus Solve..Per 5 qt. Hydra-Force.

I highly doubt that sludge would even make it through the dema valve.


Mohawk knowing full well about the popularity of citrus based presprays are using this bs to get out of their worthless warranties that 90% of new carpet buyers aren't even aware of.

 

[floorguy]

Like tim said...most cases your warrenty issues come up within 6 mths maybe a year...

shit alot of places commercial wise should be done every 3-6 mths anyway....

1st question from mfg...

"when was the last tiem you got it cleaned???"

"cleaned ???? you mean it needs cleaned??


1 of my customers, waits 6 mths to a year before we clean, then its every 3 mths..

of course it takes that long to really get busy and get it dirty

 

[R W]

Is Mohawk the company that insists that you use their "powdered cleaner" instead of HWE?? I can't think of who pushes that "Capture" carpet cleaner...

 

[Jim Pemberton]

You're thinking Milliken Bob. Mohawk likes HWE.

I think Mohawk is being damn narrow minded, but I do understand some of their antipathy toward citrus solvents. Those products are the spotter of choice in the Jan San industry, and you've got lazy janitors out there taking gallon jugs of the stuff, pouring it on grease spots, and kicking it in with their shoes.

Delamination and resoil issues are everywhere as a result. I'm sure many of you have seen it too.

Most of the cleaning restrictions on commercial carpet are coming from bad actions from that part of janitorial contractors and in house staff, although I have seen my share of fat and lazy "professional" carpet cleaners do the "spill and kick" routine myself!

 

[hogjowl]

I thought the Niki method was an accepted industry practice?

 

[encapman]

That's puzzling. If the Cimex were tested at their labs on commercial carpet, they'd find that it is not damaging. As the Cimex drive deck turns clockwise the brushes turn back counter-clockwise. Hence as the machine may be thought to be "damaging" the fiber, it's also un-damaging it at the same time --- as can be seen in this illustration...

It would appear that testing is not being performed. Perhaps the assumption is being made that since the Cimex is a round machine its effect to the carpet will be like a standard rotary machine. A simple test of a Cimex on the carpet however will confirm what PTL discovered; that there's no damage to the fiber. Even after making 22 passes on a cut pile commercial carpet, the appearance was satisfactory...http://www.excellent-supply.com/cimex_r ... esults.pdf

Experience, professional testing, and lots of real world usage has proven that the Cimex will not damage any grade of commercial carpet. I think if they will take a closer look at the Cimex, they'll come to appreciate that the Cimex is unlike a rotary machine and that it will not damage any commercial product.