pto/ slide in questions

[alexcarpets]

Hey guys,



So I was looking at my TM options after doing research, and thanks to some very helpful feedback from forum members, I decided on a slide-in unit.



I thought I should run my decision by a friend of mine who works in the industry, and he's suggesting to get a PTO unit instead. Here are some points that him and I discussed, and in some of these, I'm not sure whose point is more valid.

1. I was originally trying to avoid getting a PTO unit because I heard that since the pto is new, the van also has to be relatively new to last the life of the machine. Mainly because ou the van fails before the machine, then it would be very costly to transfer the machine into another van. Two questions on this (a) how much does it cost to move a PTO from one vehicle to another., and (b) How new does the vehicle have to be?

1. Safety - I was considering the purchase of a propane powered slide in, but he was saying it's not safe to carry propane in a vehicle. Is this true?

1. What are my options for pto units? Butler seems to be pretty expensive, and hydramaster cds seems to only provide decent heart with eye salsa package add on. There's cleanco 47, and what other good options?

 

[BIG WOOD]

Start with:

What is your budget to start out? It's ok to have a little debt starting if you have a side gig to pay for the loan. PTO/New van setups are dramatically more expensive than a used van/box truck with a entry slide in propane machine.

Safety- It's just as safe as a slide in. The reported fires you see are from people who have a bunch of flammable junk around the neglected machine that catches fire. Slide ins have caught fire also. I bought a garage made non propane machine from a crook in Texas and my exhaust headers burned in half and could've caught fire easily

If you have the money to buy a new van/pto, I think Cleanco has the best option. Better made the hydra master, and a little cheaper than a butler that has a terrible design on layout. You need to consider which model has the best space saving design. Butler wastes allot of usable space and their hose reel design only holds 200' of vac hose.

 

[alexcarpets]

Start with:

What is your budget to start out? It's ok to have a little debt starting if you have a side gig to pay for the loan. PTO/New van setups are dramatically more expensive than a used van/box truck with a entry slide in propane machine.

Safety- It's just as safe as a slide in. The reported fires you see are from people who have a bunch of flammable junk around the neglected machine that catches fire. Slide ins have caught fire also. I bought a garage made non propane machine from a crook in Texas and my exhaust headers burned in half and could've caught fire easily

If you have the money to buy a new van/pto, I think Cleanco has the best option. Better made the hydra master, and a little cheaper than a butler that has a terrible design on layout. You need to consider which model has the best space saving design. Butler wastes allot of usable space and their hose reel design only holds 200' of vac hose.

Is Cleanco reliable, and easy to fix in case it breaks down?

How much does it cost to install a PTO? And if I install it in a vehicle that's older and gives up dust, how much is it to uninstall?

Edited: I meant to say easy to fix, not sell. Corrected in post

 

[BIG WOOD]

Is Cleanco reliable, and easy to fix in case it breaks down?

How much does it cost to install a PTO? And if I install it in a vehicle that's older and gives up dust, how much is it to uninstall?

Edited: I meant to say easy to fix, not sell. Corrected in post

My 2002 Chevy express box has almost 300k miles on it on the original engine.


Once a pto is installed, fix the van when it breaks down, no need to replace.

 

[Cleanworks]

Is Cleanco reliable, and easy to fix in case it breaks down?

How much does it cost to install a PTO? And if I install it in a vehicle that's older and gives up dust, how much is it to uninstall?

Edited: I meant to say easy to fix, not sell. Corrected in post

A skilled mechanic can swap out a PTO unit but it's complicated. You are using a driveshaft that runs from the engine compartment, through the cab, either directly hooked up to the blower or using a belt system. You can only switch to similar vans due to the specific length of the driveshaft. The drive shaft has to be installed properly and balanced with the correct angle so that the belts stay on it. Then you have the electronic throttle hook up as well as the parking brake safety switch. Then you still have to unbolt the console system, waste tank, etc and install in another van. With most slide ins, it's a matter of undoing 4 bolts and transferring the fuel hook up. Some slide ins have water and waste tanks on the console, others have separate tanks which need to be unbolted separately. I've installed slide ins myself. I would never tackle a PTO. Propane is as safe as the person operating it. If you can operate a BBQ, you can operate a propane heater. Keep a bottle of diluted dish soap in the van and test your connections periodically. If anything bubbles up, you have a leak. I wouldn't consider a PTO unless my van was 2-3 old. You may be able to buy a used pto for a reasonable price if you look around. I have seen some 2014-2015 units going for $20,000-$45,000. You want low mileage and low hours as well as a good inspection but a reputable distributor. I have an old Hydramaster 4.2 cds in a 2000 Chevy astrovan. Still reliable and gets the job done. Not as much heat and pressure as my Apex but I like using it in townhouse complexes. Easier to park and it works well enough.

 

[hogjowl]

If you’re questioning buying a PTO unit, then it’s obvious to me that you can’t afford one. So, don’t let your friend talk you into bankruptcy.

 

[alexcarpets]

My 2002 Chevy express box has almost 300k miles on it on the original engine.


Once a pto is installed, fix the van when it breaks down, no need to replace.

You make a great point.... It'll probably be cheaper to keep fixing until both the pto and vehicle are completely end of life cycle.

 

[alexcarpets]

A skilled mechanic can swap out a PTO unit but it's complicated. You are using a driveshaft that runs from the engine compartment, through the cab, either directly hooked up to the blower or using a belt system. You can only switch to similar vans due to the specific length of the driveshaft. The drive shaft has to be installed properly and balanced with the correct angle so that the belts stay on it. Then you have the electronic throttle hook up as well as the parking brake safety switch. Then you still have to unbolt the console system, waste tank, etc and install in another van. With most slide ins, it's a matter of undoing 4 bolts and transferring the fuel hook up. Some slide ins have water and waste tanks on the console, others have separate tanks which need to be unbolted separately. I've installed slide ins myself. I would never tackle a PTO. Propane is as safe as the person operating it. If you can operate a BBQ, you can operate a propane heater. Keep a bottle of diluted dish soap in the van and test your connections periodically. If anything bubbles up, you have a leak. I wouldn't consider a PTO unless my van was 2-3 old. You may be able to buy a used pto for a reasonable price if you look around. I have seen some 2014-2015 units going for $20,000-$45,000. You want low mileage and low hours as well as a good inspection but a reputable distributor. I have an old Hydramaster 4.2 cds in a 2000 Chevy astrovan. Still reliable and gets the job done. Not as much heat and pressure as my Apex but I like using it in townhouse complexes. Easier to park and it works well enough.

I really appreciate you sharing. That is one of the advantages of slide in is that they can be installed with some level of technical knowledge.
The CDS, is that a 2000 as well? I'm assuming it's got a crazy number of hours which is why it's losing heat and pressure?

 

[Cleanworks]

I really appreciate you sharing. That is one of the advantages of slide in is that they can be installed with some level of technical knowledge.
The CDS, is that a 2000 as well? I'm assuming it's got a crazy number of hours which is why it's losing heat and pressure?

The CDS is the same year. Not losing heat or pressure, just didn't have much to start with. The original heat exchangers are only rated for aprox 600 psi. The pump is capable of at least 1200 but has a pulley size limiting it for much less for safety sake. Newer ones have higher rated pumps and heat exchangers. Max temperature on this one is about 205 degrees. I don't use it for tiles .

 

[alexcarpets]

The CDS is the same year. Not losing heat or pressure, just didn't have much to start with. The original heat exchangers are only rated for aprox 600 psi. The pump is capable of at least 1200 but has a pulley size limiting it for much less for safety sake. Newer ones have higher rated pumps and heat exchangers. Max temperature on this one is about 205 degrees. I don't use it for tiles .

I appreciate you sharing. Thank you

 

[scotty747]

I dont think my chevy 350 ever gets above 195, so 180 from the heat exchangers if I was lucky.

 

[Cleanworks]

I dont think my chevy 350 ever gets above 195, so 180 from the heat exchangers if I was lucky.

Depends on where you take the heat from. Before or after the thermostat.

 

[alexcarpets]

Ok, so I had a chat with Butler today and they seem a little bit pricier compared to other direct drive systems. I’ve also heard that the layout of their set up is not optimized for space saving. I know Cleanco 47 offers direct drive, as does the hydra master CDS 4.8 with salsa package. I’m looking for some with really good suction and exceptional heat. Which other direct drive options are available. Aside from these twoWhich other direct drive options are available, aside from these two?

 

[alexcarpets]

Ok, so I had a chat with Butler today and they seem a little bit pricier compared to other direct drive systems. I’ve also heard that the layout of their set up is not optimized for space saving. I know Cleanco 47 offers direct drive, as does the hydra master CDS 4.8 with salsa package. I’m looking for some with really good suction and exceptional heat. Which other direct drive options are available. Aside from these twoWhich other direct drive options are available from these two?


Edit: I’m also looking for fan options and I’m considering the GMC 3500 or Chevy 3500 express, Either of them in the extended wheelbase. Both of these vehicles are offered in a V6 and V8 configuration. I do plan on installing a 100 gallon tank.. Which engine configuration would suffice for my needs without overstraining the engine?

 

[hogjowl]

Ok, so I had a chat with Butler today and they seem a little bit pricier compared to other direct drive systems. I’ve also heard that the layout of their set up is not optimized for space saving. I know Cleanco 47 offers direct drive, as does the hydra master CDS 4.8 with salsa package. I’m looking for some with really good suction and exceptional heat. Which other direct drive options are available. Aside from these twoWhich other direct drive options are available, aside from these two?

In my opinion, both Cleanco and Hydramaster are good options. The things I would make my choice around are:
Which has the closest distributor to you?
Is that distributor experienced with that particular PTO unit?
How reliable are they in their service department?
Are you going to be down weeks before they can fit you in?
What about your local Chevy dealer? Will their service center fight you when you bring your van in for service? My local dealer told me not to bring it to them.

Your PTO will most likely be very reliable, but when you need repairs, try not to find yourself in the situation I am in where you’re forced to do your own work.

 

[FredC]

In my opinion, both Cleanco and Hydramaster are good options. The things I would make my choice around are:
Which has the closest distributor to you?
Is that distributor experienced with that particular PTO unit?
How reliable are they in their service department?
Are you going to be down weeks before they can fit you in?
What about your local Chevy dealer? Will their service center fight you when you bring your van in for service? My local dealer told me not to bring it to them.

Your PTO will most likely be very reliable, but when you need repairs, try not to find yourself in the situation I am in where you’re forced to do your own work.

and does your other job (or your wife's) afford the payment...

 

[hogjowl]

I bought two within 2 years, my wife doesn’t work and I don’t have a second job. I’m not saying this because I think your comment was directed at me, but to point out that an extra $400 per month payment over a slide in is not hard to manage.
Unless you’re a Matt.

 

[FredC]

I bought two within 2 years, my wife doesn’t work and I don’t have a second job. I’m not saying this because I think your comment was directed at me, but to point out that an extra $400 per month payment over a slide in is not hard to manage.
Unless you’re a Matt.

pto/ slide in questions

Hey guys, So I was looking at my TM options after doing research, and thanks to some very helpful feedback from forum members, I decided on a slide-in unit. I thought I should run my decision by a friend of mine who works in the industry, and he's suggesting to get a PTO unit instead. Here...

mikeysboard.com

 

[BIG WOOD]

pto/ slide in questions

Hey guys, So I was looking at my TM options after doing research, and thanks to some very helpful feedback from forum members, I decided on a slide-in unit. I thought I should run my decision by a friend of mine who works in the industry, and he's suggesting to get a PTO unit instead. Here...

mikeysboard.com

Marty is such a douche

 

[hogjowl]

I know how to park, vacuum and I use a hole glide.

 

[alexcarpets]

In my opinion, both Cleanco and Hydramaster are good options. The things I would make my choice around are:
Which has the closest distributor to you?
Is that distributor experienced with that particular PTO unit?
How reliable are they in their service department?
Are you going to be down weeks before they can fit you in?
What about your local Chevy dealer? Will their service center fight you when you bring your van in for service? My local dealer told me not to bring it to them.

Your PTO will most likely be very reliable, but when you need repairs, try not to find yourself in the situation I am in where you’re forced to do your own work.

I honestly had no clue the dealership would be an issue because Butler's selling point was that their units don't void the factory vehicle warranty with Chevy. To your point (....and what I overlooked), the dealership can make a stink about it.
To be honest, that's unsettling given I would be buying a new vehicle for the purpose of using their warranty, if needed. Definitely something I'll have to further look into, but not sure how as the dealership will say anything I want to hear to sell me the car.

That aside, should I be going for a V6 or V8? And GMC or Chevy? Are there are major selling points, or drawbacks, to either?

 

[alexcarpets]

and does your other job (or your wife's) afford the payment...

Yes, working on the details of making this possible.

 

[alexcarpets]

I bought two within 2 years, my wife doesn’t work and I don’t have a second job. I’m not saying this because I think your comment was directed at me, but to point out that an extra $400 per month payment over a slide in is not hard to manage.
Unless you’re a Matt.

Which two units did you buy, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[scotty747]

There's really no difference in chevy vs. gmc. I think the gmc's are nicer though.

 

[hogjowl]

I bought Cleanco because my distributor sold them. He’s 250 miles away. I bought my GMC vans from him also, which was probably part of my dealers pissy attitude. He’d been through a couple of service managers and both were jerks. New one is a friend so no issues since, except I’m not paying them astronomical service fees for out of warranty work. I have no experience with Butler, but I read a long series of posts a few years back where Mark Saiger had a nightmare with his local dealer on a brand new GMC.

 

[Jimmy L]

It's okay just buy one

 

[alexcarpets]

There's really no difference in chevy vs. gmc. I think the gmc's are nicer though.

I haven't really noticed a difference either, but availability wise, there seems to be more GMCs available where I live, at the moment.

 

[alexcarpets]

I bought Cleanco because my distributor sold them. He’s 250 miles away. I bought my GMC vans from him also, which was probably part of my dealers pissy attitude. He’d been through a couple of service managers and both were jerks. New one is a friend so no issues since, except I’m not paying them astronomical service fees for out of warranty work. I have no experience with Butler, but I read a long series of posts a few years bad where Mark Saiger had a nightmare with his local dealer on a brand new GMC.

One of the reasons I'm looking at new, and direct drive, is to have warranty coverage, if needed. I've heard multiple stories now, both on the Chevy side and GMC side where dealerships have been giving issues. I prefer direct drive, but I still haven't committed to any purchases. Are there any slide-ins that provide exceptional heat and suction, that are comparable to direct drive? At the end of the day, it's about doing quality work. Yes, I prefer direct drive, but if slide-in means I can get the dealership to fix a breakdown without hassling me, whike still getting similar results, I'm open to it.

 

[alexcarpets]

The flaw with the cleanco is they only have ONE serpentine belt to drive the blower and pump along with the engine. Always keep extra Gates (Green) fleetrunner belts on hand and get to know how to change them yourself. Operate with the hood open to vacate engine heat during the summer. And be prepared to replace the van's water pump more often.

If it's not hard to change, I can do it.... I am pretty comfortable with that kinda stuff with cars, for example. I do love the Cleanco compact layout.

 

[BIG WOOD]

One of the reasons I'm looking at new, and direct drive, is to have warranty coverage, if needed. I've heard multiple stories now, both on the Chevy side and GMC side where dealerships have been giving issues. I prefer direct drive, but I still haven't committed to any purchases. Are there any slide-ins that provide exceptional heat and suction, that are comparable to direct drive? At the end of the day, it's about doing quality work. Yes, I prefer direct drive, but if slide-in means I can get the dealership to fix a breakdown without hassling me, whike still getting similar results, I'm open to it.

There's several slide ins that perform the same if not better than direct drives. The slide ins that have a 3cylinder Kubota engine or bigger. Any slide in with an air cooled engine isn't worth bragging about