Interview with James Bailey Smith 4-11-07

[JamesBaileySmith]

Jim,
Can you elaborate more on the testing soils. I have often wondered about that. Of course soil varies by region. Also there are many factors I am not convinced were addressed, such as food spills, compacted soils, petroleum oils, organic oils (food grade).

From what I can see, it appears that a synthetic soil was uniformly applied to a carpet sample, then testing was conducted.

Maybe I need to clean more carpets, but in the one I have cleaned, I have not come across any with a synthetic soil.

I have also never found one that was uniformly soiled.

I have no problem with uniform soiling. My question for everybody is how important is an oily component to having a real world test? How big of a deal is it if there is no oily component?

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

Craig, are you asking for the proprietary formula that is used by Chem Dry?

 

[Dale]

Hi Greenie:

When it comes to yarn loom oil, I always was told by the mill to have the cleaner (I'm not a cleaner) to use no chemical. Just alot of heat, and flush and vacuum as much as possible. After-all the oil itself is a surfactant? Is that correct Jim?

Thx,
Dale

 

[Greenie]

"I have been assured this will never happen."

There is NOBODY in the IICRC that assure anyone of anything, it's dynamic and changing, it has to be.
Your position in the IICRC is worth no more than the cost to replace you, and people are cheap.

out with the old.

 

[Craig Lindquist]

Yes.

I am trying to get sued, I feel left out.

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

This is a new topic, but I have t ask...

Is there any scientific or at qualitative evidence that you know of that concludes that carbonation aids the cleaning process?

Yes. It comes from the CHEMICAL ENCYCLOPIA. There is a reference about effervescency causing soil from one to four micron being removed by mechanical actions. Surfactants do not normally remove soil below four microns. That is why filter soil is hard to remove.

 

[Dale]

Hi Jim:

One more question please, then I’m off to the sack. But will read the answers later.

I too am a full-time inspector. I’m in agreement that virtually none of the inspections that I done have been where a cleaner voided a carpet warranty. But I would estimate that I have inspected 100’s –1000’s where an installer did.

This is one weird fact, when we think about all the ruckus that SOA has caused. I don’t get it. Do you have any idea why such a program would have been implemented when it really was not that big of a deal?

Thx,
Dale

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

Hi Greenie:

When it comes to yarn loom oil, I always was told by the mill to have the cleaner (I'm not a cleaner) to use no chemical. Just alot of heat, and flush and vacuum as much as possible. After-all the oil itself is a surfactant? Is that correct Jim?

Thx,
Dale

I do not know who this mill is. I have worked very closely with one particular mill on this problem. Mills do not like to disclose what they are using for a coolant on olefins. Some department heads will not share that information with others in the same company. There is a Federal Standard that states that spin finish over 2% as measured by an extractable matter tests is not acceptable. My best success has been with PROCHEM’s Olefin Cleaner and with encapsulants.

 

[Mikey P]

one more question about that mythical TM of yours...

Would you use Soft or DI water?

 

[Craig Lindquist]

Ok, but what about when the soil is bound by oils?

Using theory, and the 3 laws of thermal dynamics I can prove on paper that using high heat and heating the fine soil particles will cause them to release and the carpet could be cleaned by entropy. That does not mean ts going to happen that way.

Has any actual independent testing that you know of been conducted that would confirm those claims.

Also, after I posted my previous I went back and edited it with another question.

I am trying to clear some things up for everyone. As you know, there is a lot of concern with the manner in which a particular company conducts themselves.

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

"I have been assured this will never happen."

There is NOBODY in the IICRC that assure anyone of anything, it's dynamic and changing, it has to be.
Your position in the IICRC is worth no more than the cost to replace you, and people are cheap.

out with the old.

I have felt very bad some of the folks who gave a lot and then seemed to be forgotten when life was not going well for them.

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

one more question about that mythical TM of yours...

Would you use Soft or DI water?

Soft water.

 

[harryhides]

Jim if it was up to you in what ways would you change the CCT class. Would you leave it at 2 days or would you add a day or even two for some hands on time. What if anything would you add in order to help a new graduate to be a more capable and competent carpet cleaner?
Would you limit the class size?

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

Jim if it was up to you in what ways would you change the CCT class. Would you leave it at 2 days or would you add a day or even two for some hands on time. What if anything would you add in order to help a new graduate to be a more capable and competent carpet cleaner?
Would you limit the class size?

Few want to come to a three day class. My recommendation would be for an advance cleaner designation. We have the technology to steam clean and dry in minutes without wicking. This is amazing. Yaw guys are so lucky. Do you have any idea as to what my drying time was with a Steamex machines? DAYS!!!!!

 

[Greenie]

Jim, are you referring to Ed York?
I agree many early innovators were neglected.

ok, how about term limits? Something more current and now?

The problem seems to be "squatters" not movers and shakers. Sometimes we just need to clean house.

 

[harryhides]

Describe the perfect carpet and pad that you would encourage a customer that is buying new carpet to look for in the living room.

Fiber
construction
Twist count
density
pile height
weight
pad - type, thickness and weight

in round figures, if you can.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

10 Minute Warning Folks!

Its great to have so many questions, and a thoughtful (at many levels) participant who gives thorough answers.

As before, we have more questions than Jim has had time to answer. He'll answer them soon.

And Larry C: I'll get that answer to you about the AFR and protector later. Remind me tomorrow, ok?

 

[Mikey P]

What would you like to see done with this Board that could not be done with the advertiser driven alternates?

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

Hi Jim:

One more question please, then I’m off to the sack. But will read the answers later.

I too am a full-time inspector. I’m in agreement that virtually none of the inspections that I done have been where a cleaner voided a carpet warranty. But I would estimate that I have inspected 100’s –1000’s where an installer did.

This is one weird fact, when we think about all the ruckus that SOA has caused. I don’t get it. Do you have any idea why such a program would have been implemented when it really was not that big of a deal?

Thx,
Dale

I know this does not answer your question, but I got a question of my own. Why are the fees so high? Woolsafe is a for profit entity; their fees are lower. Woolsafe has never been involved in this kind of controversy. When SOA announce a non-oily soil, I could not see a way for them to recover. Today, they still do seem to get how big of a deal that is. It is huge.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

On that note, its 8:00 PT, and 11:00 here in the far east.

Thanks to all who participated, and our deepest thanks to Jim Smith.

Good night Jim; join us again soon.

 

[Greenie]

I'm gonna venture a guess, because WoolSafe doesn't have the mills in their pocket?
Sometimes ya just gotta throw it out there, what are they gonna do Sue me?

THANKS FOR BEING HERE JIM

 

[harryhides]

Yes, thanks Jim, good job.

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

What would you like to see done with this Board that could not be done with the advertiser driven alternates?

Mike
I think the wave of the future for associations is boards and fests. I am an officer in two associations. I have ties to others. Folks to not like to jump in their cars and drive across town for a meeting anymore. They like the internet.
We do like to meet in person for special events, but only once or twice a year. Those events need to be fun as well as educational. Personally, I do not think these events need to be expensive.
The suggestion for yaw is to become an association.

 

[Mikey P]

Thanks Jim



Hey, speaking of fests, any chance we can get you out next year for Tonyfest?

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

I am going to call it a night. I want to thank Mike and Jim for having me. I need to eat a little before going to bed. I will get to the other questions in the next few days. God Bless all of yaw. Keep up the good fight. Never give up on what is right.

 

[Craig Lindquist]

I am sure I can find uniformly soiled carpets in Youngsville.



Thanx a lot, I greatly benefited from your knowledge you shared tonight.

 

[Jeff]

Hey Jim I enjoyed it, thanks alot. I'll see you on the 26th.

 

[Jimbo]

Thank you very much for your insights, Mr Smith!

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

Well since every one is mute..


How do you deal with "students" in your cct classes that you know are just plain morons?

You and I both know that this trade is filled with yokes who can barely tie their own shoes..

Do you ever fill guilty for sending them out to "clean" having skated by the test with a 76%?

Mike
I do not find that many morons. I hear other instructors talk about them. I assume we are getting the same kinds of students. We do have a lot of dyslexic cleaners; I am dyslexic. You got to appeal to folks from many different angles. I give lecture, show videos, tell war stories, and put something physical in their hands. In Cerritos California recently I had a dozen students who were from Mexico. All had limited education in Spanish. None of them asked for special help during the exam. I did give them both the English and Spanish versions of the exam to compare. We make too big of a deal about dumb people in this industry.
Ps I have wonder about some of the instructors not being that bright, but who knows. Maybe they are not really carpet cleaners.

 

[JamesBaileySmith]

Do you see the boards and the info shared on them effecting the cleaning industry as a whole?

Can what happens here ever really get to the Coits and Stanleys?


I see those two in my area cleaning like it was 1972. Will the biggies ever go to high flow, big suck, speed drying, low residue chems etc?

Mike
There is a problem on institutionalizing carpet cleaning. Shaw and DuPont have not been successful at it. The franchises have to give up too much of their money to be a franchise. The thing is, we are honest hard working folks who are passionate about what we are doing. Often our quality is great and our prices are low. There is not much margin for gain for the big corporate players.
Many of the franchises have wacky ideas. Some do not prevacuum other use detergents with optical brighteners. Others think it cool to leave the carpet looking like a Backgammon table. They do not get the point on why you need the biggest badest cleaning machine ever made. Their guys are not as motivated. I will give them this, they have tied up the restoration side of business.