HWE vs Padding - Pricing

[John G]

What's there to know about OP. I just watched a vid on Youtube. Kind of explains it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VU7QXYC ... re=related
a double OP machine. He did a great job. Looks quite clean. Very fast. But is it "clean"??


Ron, you just proved everything I said, first off, how do you call that video CLEANING? Secondly it is a BONNET machine, not (as you confused it with) an OP. Thirdly he is running a couple of green stripe pads that do NOT pick up a lot and definitely do not clean deeply.

 

[Mikey P]

Hey thats John the Bonnet Pro dude.!






To me it looked like the "Swing Machine" was doing a better job.


I don't know why they showed the underside of those stripped pads. They were embarrassingly clean.

 

[Mikey P]

But you have to be impressed with the numbers.

 

[Brian L]

That machine was going way too fast. No wonder the bonnets were still clean.

 

[Mikey P]

I wonder if Bruce Parsons ever runs cotton or Glads under his machine.

 

[Ron Werner]

I know lots of places where OP work will make it LOOK cleaner.

Ok then, show me a vid of some really good OP work that will show me that it is cleaning better than a TM. NOW I mean CLEANING, ie REMOVING the soil load. I want to be able to lay on that carpet and KNOW that its a clean carpet, not just the top fibres, but its removed the allergens, the oils and soils. Viewers are standing by.

I want to see WHITE pads, not black. By the time the pads are black they should have been changed a minute earlier. If its black, its spreading. The last pad should almost clean if it works that well.

I have heard of guys padding after steam cleaning and the pads are hardly soiled. The padding is just for touch up and drying.

ANd proving whose dick is bigger isn't even the intent of the post!

 

[diamond brian]

Never seen or used the Aztec machine, but it seems that by running it straight, you'd leave a Rotovacian dirty streak.

 

[John G]

Your whole mindset is skewed Ron, ANY one cleaning with OP is REMOVING the soil load.

I have YET to see a HWE'd carpet that didn't have good and dirty cotton pads come up after it was just cleaned.

The idea that you KNOW it is clean after hwe shows you haven't tested THAT method either. If you understood the difference and that both are similar and both extract and both rinse, then we MIGHT be able to get somewhere.

Show me a vid of HWE cleaning BETTER than OP.

 

[Jeremy]

John, please forgive my ignorance but just how does an OP machine rinse? The extraction part is via absorption of emulsified soils but rinsing? Unless you can rinse with air (vacuum cleaner) instead of water... It may be semantics but the terminology is throwing me for a loop. I am a firm believer in the capabilities of OP but have never "rinsed" a carpet with an OP machine.

 

[Jeremy]

From Wikipedia:
rinsed, rins·ing, rins·es
1. To wash lightly with water.
2. To remove (soap, for example) by washing lightly in water.
n.
1. The act of washing lightly.
2. A solution, such as water, used in rinsing.
3. A solution used in coloring or conditioning the hair.

 

[Jimmy L]

Two step bonnet cleaners would often go back over the carpet with a clean bonnet dipped in water.


Or like the Chem max system the second step was the "Acid" rinse step.


Bonnet cleaning (And OP is considered Bonnet cleaning) done right involves multiple steps.

Especially in a residential it is far easier to HWE.

 

[Jeremy]

I still don't see it as a rinsing step. Maybe a dry pass, but still if it's dry it's not a rinse. The general idea is to leave at least some of the encapsulating shampoo behind as it leaves a beneficial residue.

 

[Derek]

i see it as a rinse/extraction step with clean water and cotton pad...same as when i used to HWE.

even after u clear-water rinse with your HWE wand or cotton pad there is still some residue, however negligent, in the carpet (MAYBE not with a steamin demon)...whether u are using an encap'er or something like Procyon or Abstraction.

that's just me --- Derek.

 

[Mikey P]

Show me a vid of HWE cleaning BETTER than OP

I think Teets got a video of me whooping your ass in my garage, hold on...

 

[bob vawter]

Hey yous guys....John G IS the esteamed author of the brand new leaflet called padding for dummies.....

or was that padding BY dummies........?

 

[John G]

No such video Mikey, unless you are now wanting to put a time limit on it, one carpet would have taken me a LONG time the other carpet I did much faster with the same results as you.

Rinsing is the second step with a new wet pad, where needed it rinses just like HWE. For example, you can RINSE all day long with HWE but the pad will still be dirty, why? Was you rinse so effective that you removed all the soil and residue? NO! Thinking about cleaning and testing what you do are two totally different monkeys.

 

[bob vawter]

Hey John...how much yous askin' for that leaflet that you wrot.......and what's it called again...i checked Barnes & Noble...but i guess it ain't GOT there yet...huh?

 

[Ron Werner]

That is what it all comes down to. Those four letter words.
Time and Fort, very closely related to the prefix EF.

Just how much TIME and EFFORT does it take to OP a carpet to get it as clean as HWE?
HOW often does someone take that time and effort?
Can one make the kind of profit that I keep hearing about if a carpet is OP'd with that effort?
In a relatively soiled house, padding a square yard would soil a pad enough to need replacing. Just how many pads are actually used?

John G wrote:

Your whole mindset is skewed Ron, ANY one cleaning with OP is REMOVING the soil load.

I have YET to see a HWE'd carpet that didn't have good and dirty cotton pads come up after it was just cleaned.

Funniest damn thing I've heard all week!!!!

You're obviously new to the board. You need to read up on the latest developments in HWE: 2.5" hose, Judson juice system, greenhorn wands, high flow? And you call my mindset skewed.
You obviously have us confused with Stanley Steamer types.
I wish I would have videoed the 2 houses I cleaned today. Your pad wouldn't be getting a lot of those carpets. 3-3.5hrs each cleaning small vacant houses with 2 men. A LOT of efFORT.

BTW when the high flow started, didn't some cleaners pad their carpets after wards and find no soiling?

An OP rinse? :shock: In HWE, rinsing "removes" the soil, extracting it from the carpet, any "residue" left is from the rinse agent.
BUT with OP you rinse with a WET PAD (posted above)???? How does that rinse anything when it can't pick anything up. A wet pad would just smear things around.
You've got me here, I've NEVER heard or even conceived of bonnet rinsing. Just how is that done????

Show me a vid of HWE cleaning BETTER than OP.

How MANY would you like?

 

[hogjowl]

Not taking sides here ... as I do both methods ... but if you keep padding an area until you get a clean pad (no soil transfer), you'll either die of old age while there, or tip bloom the carpet all to hell.

 

[Mikey P]

When John gets a truck mount I'll respect him in the morning.









oops, gotta go, thats my OP knocking.

 

[John G]

Just how much TIME and EFFORT does it take to OP a carpet to get it as clean as HWE?
HOW often does someone take that time and effort?
Can one make the kind of profit that I keep hearing about if a carpet is OP'd with that effort?
In a relatively soiled house, padding a square yard would soil a pad enough to need replacing. Just how many pads are actually used?

You have come a bit of a ways now, at least you are asking about it, instead of claiming to KNOW! I knew you didn't know OP when you talked about bonneting before..


New to the board? ROFLMAO, now you really show you haven't been around that long... that was better than a Marty saying...

Videos, I have put up more videos than ANYONE of cleaning nasty carpets.
I haven't seen yours yet. But one really good one with side by side OP to HWE will do, I haven't found ANYTHING a HWE will clean that an OP won't in 35 years, so bring it on. ON many I will clean it faster on others you will, on a couple it will take me a long time, but only on carpet that you wouldn't really be cleaning for a custy anyways.

A wet pad would just smear thing around


Wow, you just showed again that you haven't even tried it, you are talking from what you think instead of experience.


Not taking sides here ... as I do both methods ... but if you keep padding an area until you get a clean pad (no soil transfer), you'll either die of old age while there, or tip bloom the carpet all to hell.
Actually the same is true for HWE, you remember the test carpet in Atlanta don't you? Cleaned and cleaned and cleaned and yet what happened when a pad was put to it?

 

[Dolly]

May I chime in here...............?

The job that I charge 4500.00 for, was trashed out carpet .........

They thought it needed replacing. I knew it did not.

In fact there were 3 large bleached out areas some talented tech did trying to get stains out. I colored them by camouflaging the areas so they were not so noticeable. In fact you had to look pretty hard to see where I did the color repair.

When I started the project I first used my Brute OP machine and then I used my Porty......HWE

It took both methods for me to gain the never stepped on look.

Was the carpet perfectly clean? probably not. But you could no longer see any path dirt trails or any wicking spills they were accustomed to seeing after the many times it was cleaned by "a professional franchise"

This is about 2 month's later now, and the carpet still looks like it did when I cleaned it.

I don't leave any job until I no longer see dirt paths, or trails. My policy.

Carpet does not really ware out, it just gets ugly out.

I don't have to lie to impress anyone. I have been invited back quarterly to keep the carpets the way they like them .............

I really am amazed every time and even humbled by the opportunity to be the cleaner chosen for the work that comes my way.

Just trusting and obeying my call............ :wink:

P.S. I saw the video with the twin deal and I agree with Mikey, the swing machine side looked cleaner.

I also saw the related video........Can't we get the last name of Harris out of this industry? LOL

I believe you can go to fast and make something look and appear cleaner than it is.

I happen to be much more anal about my cleaning.

I know how to work fast, but never compromise on my quality.

It is called think and execute.

 

[Jeff Madsen]

While you all figure this calculus out I'm gonna go cash my checks from all my happy clients. Happy clients who don't give a rats ass HOW I do what I do just so long as I KEEP ON doing it. This business has so little to do with cleaning it's amazing we can spend so much time arguing about methodology.

 

[Tile Nerd]

This business has so little to do with cleaning it's amazing we can spend so much time arguing about methodology.

Well said... all that matters is the results when your done, the results weeks later, and how happy the client is. A happy client WILL repeat your service and refer you.

What percent of your business is repeat & referral?

 

[Mikey P]

John lives for this stuff.

 

[hogjowl]

LOL, yes he does Mikey. It's the best way to keep padding in the lime light.

Actually John, your natural reaction to what I say is to take it as criticism, but I agree with you on many points. I agree that no particular method removes all the soil and that both HWE and Padding are guilty of this. I also agree with you that padding is a viable method and one can make a good living using it alone.

However, I feel HWE is the corner stone of carpet cleaning and it is a necessary element in any busy cleaning company that wants to be capable of handling any cleaning situation encountered. HWE is no longer limited in what it can effectively clean and get dry within an hour now that glides are available.

 

[Mikey P]

If you really want to do the best job possible in a filthy situation do this:

Pre vacuum thoroughly (four directions, nice and slow, empty bag or change filters as needed.

Pre spray all of the carpet with "well formulated" prespray. That means it contains a oxidizer, wetting agents and a degreaser of some sorts.

Scrub your WFPS in with a OP or 175 with the most aggressive pad or brush the pile can handle without causing yarn distortion.

Give it 10 to dwell.

With a well formulated Truck Mount (meaning 12 + inches of lift, 200º+ ATM, 2" hose all the way to a 2" glided multi jetted wand) running soft water OR a water conditioner like STPP slowly rinse the muck out with out over wetting the carpet. Do two dry passes fro every rinse pass.

Follow this by spraying some WF Encap on any remaining soiled areas, then with your OP or 175 and some cotton or Glad pads buff away till it looks purty. Spray some WFE on the pads to reduce friction on sensitve piles and flip them often. On extreme soiling dont expect the pads to ever look clean. An Op will remove more soil here then a 175, but if you jiggle the 175 back and forth and heal it a lot it will do just fine.

Groom as needed.



The stronger the PS and the more aggressive the pre scrub, the less soil you'll see on your post pads. If you don't see any soil then the carpet was not that dirty and you panicked.

Some times you just never know and that's why some anal bastards like Dobs claim to do this on every job.

 

[bob vawter]

Mikey...yous FORGOT ta mention.......the walkpaper!

 

[Mikey P]

Oh yeah, if you decide to just run napalm through your TM, leave some paper for them to walk on so their shoes dont melt.

 

[Chris Muetterties]

I have 3 OP machines, a Cimex, a 175, a CRB and a god damn Vortex

Time to sell the Vortex you have the perfect stand alone that's out