I'm a commercial cleaner looking to expand our offering to include carpet care. I don't want to be another H2O extraction cleaner. We have played with encapsulation with good success on commercial carpet however, we're not happy with the results on residential carpet. Is there a revolutionary "dry" system that works? We want something that separates us from the pack.
anything revolutionary?
- Thread starter kelsoindy
- Start date
hogjowl
Idiot™
Yeah, you can go to OP cleaning. I will work in most residential situations and will definately separate you from the pack. It is more time consuming than hot water extraction, so you will have to be higher priced, and there ARE situations in which it just will not work as well as HWE. If you can get the higher prices in your market necessary to make it a profitable venture, and you can learn what not to attempt with the method, then you can make it work.
But just remember this ... when you separate yourself from the hot water extraction crowd, you inevitably allign yourself with the Chem-Dry pack.
And that's a huge negative to overcome.
But just remember this ... when you separate yourself from the hot water extraction crowd, you inevitably allign yourself with the Chem-Dry pack.
And that's a huge negative to overcome.
renegade_cowboy
Member
kelsoindy said:
HWE is the way to go. 90% of the carpet is dry to the touch when I finish the stop.
hogjowl
Idiot™
Yes, you bring up a good point. Now, with the improvements brought on by glides and 2.5 inch plumbing, 2 hour drying times with HWE is not at all uncommon. Why limit yourself with "dry" cleaning when you can have all the benefits of hot water extraction and the dry times of low moisture cleaning?
TimP
Member
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As stated above, in residential cleaning HWE is king. There is a big difference in pile height of carpet in residential compared to CGD carpet. However still if you're HWEing properly encap doesn't compare. Where encap shines is when the carpet is lightly soiled and it's not feasable to do HWE, and that's mostly for price concerns.
Also if you want to set yourself apart from the pack. Get you a good TM with a 45 or larger blower, preferably not restricted with the plumbing. Then get you a good wand (greenhorn or modified prochem TI wand with a holed glide) and few airpath fans and force dry the carpet. It's possible to get the carpet near dry, or dry before you leave.
Also if you want to set yourself apart from the pack. Get you a good TM with a 45 or larger blower, preferably not restricted with the plumbing. Then get you a good wand (greenhorn or modified prochem TI wand with a holed glide) and few airpath fans and force dry the carpet. It's possible to get the carpet near dry, or dry before you leave.
Ron Lippold
RIP
vortex 8)
sweendogg
Member
kelsoindy said:
You see unlike your preconcieved notion, most mills now require HWE and the revolution is that properly performed, HWE will keeps carpets healthier and make them last longer. The science is all in the details as stated above from QUALITY glides to proper hose plumbing to the wand. Theses seemingly small details lets the trained professional up the jet size on the wands to flush more water through the fibers to flush more soil and get dry times that often are better than Low moisture cleaning. Do you want low moisture, high residue and soil left behind or, low residue, max soil removal and cleaner carpets?
Dolly Llama
Number 5
kelsoindy said:
there's nothing new under the sun.
only thing "revolutionary", are some of the claims made in their marketing
..L.T.A.
Zee
Supportive Member
Go with your Op to a properly trashed out residential carpet full of dog and cat urine...I'm sorry but dry methods just don't cut it!
In line with the other comments- you can easily get the carpet dry in a couple of hours with the right HWE set up.
Zee
In line with the other comments- you can easily get the carpet dry in a couple of hours with the right HWE set up.
Zee
Mikey P
Administrator
Best thing you can do as a VLMer is slow down and flip/change your pads a lot.
The claims of 5,000 feet per hour are ridiculous.
The claims of 5,000 feet per hour are ridiculous.
bob vawter
Grassy Knoller
i KNOW I'm laughin'...
THERE WAS BLOOD....EVERYWHERE!!!
THERE WAS BLOOD....EVERYWHERE!!!
DevilThomas
RIP
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
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- 675
I did the same thing a while back...Commercial Cleaning Company that decided to offer Carpet Cleaning. Buy yourself a good OP machine, a Rotovac, and a good porty extractor...you will be able to handle almost any situation and provide as good or most times a much better product than a single tool TM splash and dash guy.
Bill Soukoreff
Member
John La Rue said:
Good point. I offer both as well and the residential customer has never chosen VLM once they understand the differences.
susansmith
Member
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- Mar 10, 2009
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Very Simple. Why haven't you tried Argosheen?
bob vawter
Grassy Knoller
OK...let me understand this principal........here
any contaminants encountered along the way(snot...boogers OR any other bodily fluid)would contaminate all carpet cleaned with that pad...
Is that correct?
That's what yous padders do.........?
w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWuiGWkd7mMw]
any contaminants encountered along the way(snot...boogers OR any other bodily fluid)would contaminate all carpet cleaned with that pad...
Is that correct?
That's what yous padders do.........?
w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWuiGWkd7mMw]
TimP
Member
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- May 19, 2007
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- 4,055
I can do both VLM and HWE. And have SEEN and EXPERIENCED the difference. And there is no way in hell I"d let a pad guy or vlm whatever you want to call it do the carpe in my house EVER!!!
TimP
Member
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John I'm not going to argue with you.
With that said 2 years is plenty of time to figure crap out. And it will be 3 soon. Also putting someone down like that is a cheap shot and completely uncalled for. And will not in the least change my thinking or anyone elses thinking on here either. And in my opinion unless you do both you don't have a leg to stand on to say how great your VLM is.
BTW how many years have you HWE with a good TM??? I can call upon your experience as well.
With that said 2 years is plenty of time to figure crap out. And it will be 3 soon. Also putting someone down like that is a cheap shot and completely uncalled for. And will not in the least change my thinking or anyone elses thinking on here either. And in my opinion unless you do both you don't have a leg to stand on to say how great your VLM is.
BTW how many years have you HWE with a good TM??? I can call upon your experience as well.
bob vawter
Grassy Knoller
OK John...lets say that little jimmy blows a snot ball on the carpet..........
along comes YOU and pick-up that SNOT BALL and SMEAR it till you change yor pad again....RIGHT????
And how you TOUCH them things is WAY beyond me.......i even heard of some of yous DA's washing them in yor OWN washers........
OR...........
some crack addict wit HIV blows a load on the carpet....YOU
SPREAD IT ALL OVER!!!!!
along comes YOU and pick-up that SNOT BALL and SMEAR it till you change yor pad again....RIGHT????
And how you TOUCH them things is WAY beyond me.......i even heard of some of yous DA's washing them in yor OWN washers........
OR...........
some crack addict wit HIV blows a load on the carpet....YOU
SPREAD IT ALL OVER!!!!!
Hoody
Supportive Member
How do you remove the piss from the cushion John ?
Wayne Miller
Member
Does anybody lick the pissy spots and the HIV loads after HWE as proof it's clean?
TimP
Member
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- 4,055
No....but would you lick new carpet to see if it was clean?
But I do use a cleaner that is a disinfectant and deodorizer that is also a disinfectant when urine and/or feces are involved and rinse with water near 200 degrees and not only that I suck it all up into my waste tank to flush and Remove soil from my customers homes.
How many pad guys are doing that? And if they pull out a porty they aren't padding the urine and feces.
But I do use a cleaner that is a disinfectant and deodorizer that is also a disinfectant when urine and/or feces are involved and rinse with water near 200 degrees and not only that I suck it all up into my waste tank to flush and Remove soil from my customers homes.
How many pad guys are doing that? And if they pull out a porty they aren't padding the urine and feces.
TimP
Member
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- May 19, 2007
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- 4,055
I wouldn't let you in my house to clean. And that's all I'm going to say.
Wayne Miller
Member
Tim, are you assuming you don't leave any nasties and VLM'ers leave nothing but?
Sounds like HWE always get it cleaner and VLM'er can't possibly at all. Yet, we all judge "clean" the same, with our eyeballs. That makes it an opinion. I doubt your eyeballs are calibrated any better than anybody else's. And, the real magic here is nobody ever has to back up their any of their claims of clean. Nevermind that it's a floor covering and people and pets walk all over it and otherwise abuse it, undoing much what we've done, in a health sense, in a matter of days. After a quick potty break in the back yard, a stroll through the house and a few hours lounging in his favorite spots, Fluffy has contaminated the carpet again. Did you read that article some months ago saying there are more germs on the bottoms of your shoes than there are on your toilet seat?
And, when you want to kill things in the carpet there aren't too many experts who will suggest a good quick spray of hot water. Textiles dissipate heat too quickly for HWE alone to be effective, especially after pretty much atomizing the stream. Besides, common sense suggests if a quick wanding over a urine spot can't remove the urine odor it didn't remove the urine...........or, any other unhealthy biologicals. In fact, there's a good argument the added heat and moisture is just what a little bacteria needs to increase their population.
If you have biological concerns about a carpet, I wouldn't suggest using a cleaner with a disinfectant and deodorizer in it, I'd use a product specifically for that. And, I still wouldn't declare it germ-free.
For what it's worth, one of the most common complaints about HWE is wicking. VLM is one of the most common cures. Clean carpets DON'T wick. It's no irony the popularity of VLM in large part is due to the shortcomings of HWE.
Both have valuable applications, neither are the end-all or be-all. It might take more that two or three years to figure all that out. ;-)
Sounds like HWE always get it cleaner and VLM'er can't possibly at all. Yet, we all judge "clean" the same, with our eyeballs. That makes it an opinion. I doubt your eyeballs are calibrated any better than anybody else's. And, the real magic here is nobody ever has to back up their any of their claims of clean. Nevermind that it's a floor covering and people and pets walk all over it and otherwise abuse it, undoing much what we've done, in a health sense, in a matter of days. After a quick potty break in the back yard, a stroll through the house and a few hours lounging in his favorite spots, Fluffy has contaminated the carpet again. Did you read that article some months ago saying there are more germs on the bottoms of your shoes than there are on your toilet seat?
And, when you want to kill things in the carpet there aren't too many experts who will suggest a good quick spray of hot water. Textiles dissipate heat too quickly for HWE alone to be effective, especially after pretty much atomizing the stream. Besides, common sense suggests if a quick wanding over a urine spot can't remove the urine odor it didn't remove the urine...........or, any other unhealthy biologicals. In fact, there's a good argument the added heat and moisture is just what a little bacteria needs to increase their population.
If you have biological concerns about a carpet, I wouldn't suggest using a cleaner with a disinfectant and deodorizer in it, I'd use a product specifically for that. And, I still wouldn't declare it germ-free.
For what it's worth, one of the most common complaints about HWE is wicking. VLM is one of the most common cures. Clean carpets DON'T wick. It's no irony the popularity of VLM in large part is due to the shortcomings of HWE.
Both have valuable applications, neither are the end-all or be-all. It might take more that two or three years to figure all that out. ;-)
Wayne Miller
Member
Getting back to your question, Kevin, I seriously doubt you'll find you need anything anymore revolutionary than good habits to set yourself apart from the pack.
Deliver on your promises. Obviously, I'm partial to VLM. It's what I learned, it's all I've ever done. Had I started out differently I'd probably be partial to HWE. If we leave somebody thrilled it's not so much the process, because I think most will perform equally well, it's because we probably exceeded their expectations.
VLM is well suited for commercial work. Less noise, no open doors, no special parking requirements, fewer problems with wicking, fast dry times, no big hoses for people to trip over, yada, yada, yada, all things you can play up to your advantage. In the end, though, if you show up on time, remember who the guest is, do what they asked you to do the first time, rush back and fix whatever isn't right, get their carpet back into service in a reasonable time, don't do things that make you a bigger inconvenience than the dirty carpets, all the stuff you'd expect from a cleaner, then what method you use is often six of one, a half-dozen of the other.
Deliver on your promises. Obviously, I'm partial to VLM. It's what I learned, it's all I've ever done. Had I started out differently I'd probably be partial to HWE. If we leave somebody thrilled it's not so much the process, because I think most will perform equally well, it's because we probably exceeded their expectations.
VLM is well suited for commercial work. Less noise, no open doors, no special parking requirements, fewer problems with wicking, fast dry times, no big hoses for people to trip over, yada, yada, yada, all things you can play up to your advantage. In the end, though, if you show up on time, remember who the guest is, do what they asked you to do the first time, rush back and fix whatever isn't right, get their carpet back into service in a reasonable time, don't do things that make you a bigger inconvenience than the dirty carpets, all the stuff you'd expect from a cleaner, then what method you use is often six of one, a half-dozen of the other.
