Keep in mind that much of what is considered to be "industry standards", such as keeping presprays under 10 in pH, came from the "stain resist nylon revolution" that began in 1986. 30 years ago we were faced with a trend away from earthtones (brown, olive, rust...dirt colored carpet) and toward nylon in pastels and even white.
Today nylon is no longer the "king of fibers". Instead, we are cleaning more oil loving "polys", which are subject to more pet related oily soils than ever before ( expanding pet ownership and the shift of perception from "pets" to "fur babies/four legged children" is a huge factor here), as well as tracked on sticky residues from in home hard floor cleaning products.
Its now a "perfect storm" of the worst soil conditions on the worst fiber choices.
Its good that we are no longer controlled by some of the mythology that came during those early days regarding pH, as how we cleaned 25-30 years ago is not sufficient in the face of what is often present in carpets today.
There needs to be some distinction as what pH is hazardous.
My definition is that up to ~11 does not generally cause irritation and choking.
A ph of 12 & up will definitely cause choking when spraying.
Toxicity is due to many factors. It could be a hi pH ingredient, a solvent, a surfactant, or other materials in a formulation.
Try to understand the SDS for the products you use.
They are the basic info for the products you work with.
You are right Larry. There are many ingredients that can cause reactions in people. Not just the pH. I am not worried about someone using an 11 pH product but there are some right on this board that advertise a 13pH. For me, that's getting too dangerous. I do have some products that are 10.5-11.5 pH for certain situations but find that 90% of my cleaning I can use products such as Procyon and add a little agitation, some times respray a troublesome area and rerinse it and it will come out fine. I have had personal experience with losing skin to high pH products which has made me leery of going too strong again. There are other ways.Ron;
There needs to be some distinction as what pH is hazardous.
My definition is that up to ~11 does not generally cause irritation and choking.
A ph of 12 & up will definitely cause choking when spraying.
Toxicity is due to many factors. It could be a hi pH ingredient, a solvent, a surfactant, or other materials in a formulation.
Try to understand the SDS for the products you use.
They are the basic info for the products you work with.
I have yet to grow a third nipple and am routinely around a 12 with a booster...(but the jury is still out on the effect on my cognitive abilities...)Ron;
There needs to be some distinction as what pH is hazardous.
My definition is that up to ~11 does not generally cause skin irritation and choking.
A ph of 12 & up will definitely cause choking when spraying.
Toxicity is due to many factors. It could be a hi pH ingredient, a solvent, a surfactant, or other materials in a formulation.
Try to understand the SDS for the products you use.
They are the basic info for the products you work with.
Good discussion from a lot of informed cleaners. Someone asked the question about how a carpet could be at a 7 pH when both pre-spray and rinse have a pH around or above 10. Alot of carpet soils are acidic and oil. Acidic soils neutralize some of that alkalinity. Alkalinity is also used to dissolve oils. We did one test with Flex Powder with a pH around 12 on a dirty carpet and rinsed with water resulting in a pH around 9. The drop in alkalinity is a result of it being used up in cleaning. Using a side by side test we rinsed with Flex Ice and got the pH to 7. If you are using pre-spray around 10 and an emulsifier around 10 the neutralization of the pH from soils could easily get the pH to 7. We need to remember that a pH of 10 with a pre-spray diluted 1 to 32 compared to a rinse diluted 1 to 320 and a pH of 10 do not have the same level of alkalinity. In essence the pre-spray has 10 times the alkalinity. Also most rinses with an abundance of rinse aid ingredients will carry away in the water stream not only the "globs of soil and oils" but also most remaining pre-spray. A good rinse in soft water removes most residues including soil and residual cleaning products. Hard water significantly hinders this removal process. If you want to excel at rinsing all types of carpets start with soft water!!!
You should be happy anyway Jim. We all should be.If I could be half as smart as Tom when I grow up I'd be happy....
Thanks Tom!
Your such a little bitchEncapucleanO2 Tom fix it
In other words...put a little salt in the chemical jug and run it through the rinse with our water temp set over boiling instead of buying the Alkaline rinse product?Good discussion from a lot of informed cleaners. Someone asked the question about how a carpet could be at a 7 pH when both pre-spray and rinse have a pH around or above 10. Alot of carpet soils are acidic and oil. Acidic soils neutralize some of that alkalinity. Alkalinity is also used to dissolve oils. We did one test with Flex Powder with a pH around 12 on a dirty carpet and rinsed with water resulting in a pH around 9. The drop in alkalinity is a result of it being used up in cleaning. Using a side by side test we rinsed with Flex Ice and got the pH to 7. If you are using pre-spray around 10 and an emulsifier around 10 the neutralization of the pH from soils could easily get the pH to 7. We need to remember that a pH of 10 with a pre-spray diluted 1 to 32 compared to a rinse diluted 1 to 320 and a pH of 10 do not have the same level of alkalinity. In essence the pre-spray has 10 times the alkalinity. Also most rinses with an abundance of rinse aid ingredients will carry away in the water stream not only the "globs of soil and oils" but also most remaining pre-spray. A good rinse in soft water removes most residues including soil and residual cleaning products. Hard water significantly hinders this removal process. If you want to excel at rinsing all types of carpets start with soft water!!!
if I could be half as good looking...If I could be half as smart as Tom when I grow up I'd be happy....
Thanks Tom!
Isn't Shawn ignoring Mytees problems now?