Sales Team

mirf

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How many of you have a sales team in place? Do they do Residential and Commercial? I never find the time to focus on the route. Do you pay base and commission? How about a car?
Any other plans you have, groups they can join.
 

TomKing

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Can I ask a few questions?
how many trucks do you currently run?
Do you want to be multi truck?
How large is your service area?

if you are not already multi truck getting a sales rep is not the solution to growing.
A rep will have to produce $250 - 300k worth of work to even pay for them selves. A single or even 2 truck company will have a hard time keeping up with that amount of new work.
You can not skip the basics one dedicated sales afternoon or morning each week to sell.
If you are on the truck still figure out how to get off the truck no one when you are under 5 trucks will ever sell better than you.
How many of you have a sales team in place? Do they do Residential and Commercial? I never find the time to focus on the route. Do you pay base and commission? How about a car?
Any other plans you have, groups they can join.
 

Shane Deubell

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Me and all of my different personalities :shifty:.

Have 1 assistant that works about 30 hours a week, sets appts, mailers, etc.
I do all of the estimates.
 
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mirf

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Tom,

I run two trucks and have 1 back up. I do wish to continue to grow to a multi truck operation now and looking increase commercial accounts.
My service area is densely populated just across bridge to Philadelphia and 1.5 hours south of NYC. I admit I need to follow through on sales time and am making a commitment to do that.
Someone suggested a commission sales rep so I have been giving it some thought.
 

Brian H

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David;

Allow me to be up front and very frank about answering your question:

It's a waste of time.:hopeless: Very difficult to employ and maintain.:cry:

Further, no one will ever be a better sales person than "the owner".:clap:


Best always;
Ed V

Wow, I am glad I didn't listen to your advice Ed...

And from what I have seen in this industry, the average owner is not a great salesperson.

David, it sounds like the person you are looking is a part-time person working a day or 2 a week. How about a senior citizen that is looking for a little extra money or a stay at home parent who can put in a few hours while the kids are at school? A retired sales professional would be ideal because they already know the basics of prospecting. Pay them a commission based on completed jobs and reimburse for mileage.

That's really about it.
 
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Steve Toburen

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That's really about it.
Uhh, Brian, I have NEVER disagreed with anyone from the great Hagopian establishment. And I never will. But may I gently suggest there is much more to it than that? :)

The problem is carpet cleaners hire a sales person but don't really train or manage them OR hold them accountable. The result? Wasted money!

But wait, you say. The sales people are on commission only so who cares how efficient or good they are? Here's the deal: The true cost of an incompetent sales person not only the time they waste or the jobs that are under priced and are cleaned at a loss. No, the real disaster is the blown opportunities and contacts you only get one chance with.

NOTE: And the stakes go up even higher if you have a bad person making sales calls on adjusters.

Respectfully and timidly submitted,
Steve

PS The answer? If you are going to hire outside salespeople (which can be a very good thing IF YOU DO IT RIGHT) then learn from the auto industry. (No one knows more about sales than a car dealer!) And every car dealer, no matter how small their sales force, has something called a "Sales Manager". Why did these notoriously cheap dealers add another layer of management? Because dealers have learned that sales people must be managed, motivated and held accountable.

Once our SFS students understand the tremendous amount of hand holding the average sales person needs many of them decide to do the selling themselves! (Even thought they hate it!) Which is what most owners should be doing up till they reach over 1 million in sales.
 
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Shane Deubell

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Do agree with much of what steve said BUT in this economy you can find people part-time for all types of reasons.
The phone/cable companies here have armies of people going door to door. Its true any independent worker needs to be supervised, hell most of us need to be supervised...

The biggest thing David is you have to change your mindset a little bit. Businesses do not always want to buy RIGHT NOW, the sales cycle can be longer.
You want to develop a process for you/salesperson to follow. Take people through the system, lead-qualified lead-prospect-customer. Some software will help a lot in this, we used ACT forever and now use salesforce "in the cloud".

Today for example we had - 1 estimate (from internet)- contacted around 50 businesses- qualified 3 leads (2 email-1 mail)- no new sales
Pretty good day actually.
 
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Brian H

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Uhh, Brian, I have NEVER disagreed with anyone from the great Hagopian establishment. And I never will. But may I gently suggest there is much more to it than that? :)

The problem is carpet cleaners hire a sales person but don't really train or manage them OR hold them accountable. The result? Wasted money!

But wait, you say. The sales people are on commission only so who cares how efficient or good they are? Here's the deal: The true cost of an incompetent sales person not only the time they waste or the jobs that are under priced and are cleaned at a loss. No, the real disaster is the blown opportunities and contacts you only get one chance with.

NOTE: And the stakes go up even higher if you have a bad person making sales calls on adjusters.

Respectfully and timidly submitted,
Steve

PS The answer? If you are going to hire outside salespeople (which can be a very good thing IF YOU DO IT RIGHT) then learn from the auto industry. (No one knows more about sales than a car dealer!) And every car dealer, no matter how small their sales force, has something called a "Sales Manager". Why did these notoriously cheap dealers add another layer of management? Because dealers have learned that sales people must be managed, motivated and held accountable.

Once our SFS students understand the tremendous amount of hand holding the average sales person needs many of them decide to do the selling themselves! (Even thought they hate it!) Which is what most owners should be doing up till they reach over 1 million in sales.

Steve,

I wholeheartedly AGREE with you!!! I started to write out something similar to what you put but didn't have the time to polish it as nicely as you do.

I meet with our Commercial Cleaning Sales Manager at least once a week. He has monthly budgets and goals he is accountable for. He has access to tracking forms to keep track of individual, as well as department sales. He also needs to be answerable for what the Commercial Cleaning Sales team sells and what our On-Location department can produce.

It also helps that our Commercial Cleaning Sales Manager is self motivated and doesn't need much push from me. He actually sets private goals that are well above what I have set for the department and attains them. In the last 6 years since I hired him, and re-dedicated ourselves to commercial work, we have doubled the amount of commercial work as well as improving the overall experience for the customer. This year I budgeted a little less then 10% increase over last years record numbers and so far for the year we are 12.8% over that budget.
 

Steve Toburen

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Do agree with much of what steve said BUT in this economy you can find people part-time for all types of reasons.
I totally agree on the "part time". (I love the concept of hiring part-time people.) But ALL sales people need to be trained (especially on bidding) and constantly managed.

One essential point is to tie sales people's commission to profitability of the completed job, not their gross sales.

Steve

PS Brian, I never doubted you. Hagopians is in good hands.
 

mirf

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Thank you for all of your time.
I like the idea of a part time sales person. They will be representing the Company so training and follow up will be critical. I
need to improve my time management skills. Dedicating time for sales, training, follow up, and planning.
I am going to do something that is 101 business I guess, schedule my day in advance and track time to see how I did.
 

knoxclean

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Steve said it best ( as always) "sales people must be managed, motivated and held accountable."

With the right systems and training having a sales team is great. It's your worst nightmare if your not prepared. I have one girl that does about 25 hours a week and my office manager also does about 15 hours a week out on the road. Training and accountability are key.
 

TomKing

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Are you still on a truck daily?

Do you have some one answering the phone full time?


I would work towards a full time CSR. If you do not already have one. They could be doing out bound sales calls to help bring your commercial volume up.




Tom,

I run two trucks and have 1 back up. I do wish to continue to grow to a multi truck operation now and looking increase commercial accounts.
My service area is densely populated just across bridge to Philadelphia and 1.5 hours south of NYC. I admit I need to follow through on sales time and am making a commitment to do that.
Someone suggested a commission sales rep so I have been giving it some thought.
 

mirf

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I am not on the truck daily. I answer my phones currently. I have had part time people and it has not worked out. Still looking there and will fill as soon as I find someone.
My commercial cleaning accounts are increasing and am looking to continue to improve. Outbound calls and network group have helped.
 

Ed Valentine

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Brian;

You stated in your opinion: "
the average owner is not a great salesperson."

My opinion is that they should be! Especially if they own a business and have the education and/or experience.

However, without offering a long dragged out explanation and instead , cutting to the chase in my own comment above, I offered my 41 years of a general over-view of this industry. I have also had the opportunity of employing many individuals myself, thus, I do understand the various characteristics and personalities of people, etc....

Having stated that and after reading all the threads above, including your own, it does seem as if we are all on the same page, so please do not conclude otherwise.

It may be easier for a firm such as the one you represent to be successful employing a sales person, however, I do not believe that the majority here (keeping in mind that most are one horse outfits) would be successful period and that it would be a huge hassle.

BTW, this was a great topic IMHO.

Best to all and thanks Brian;
Ed Valentine
 

Steve Toburen

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My opinion is that they should be! Especially if they own a business and have the education and/or experience...
You know, Ed, I too used to belong to the "suck it up/ git 'er done" school of thought. And I still do for the start-up entrepreneur. But after having worked with so many cleaners and restorers over the years I have gradually changed my opinion...

Once a person is "over the hump" business wise and if you REALLY AND TRULY HATE face-to-face selling then you probably should delegate out your sales program. Why?

A) If you hate and fear something you won't be good at it long term.

B) Life is too short to do something every day you "hate and fear".

C)Taking into account "A" and "B" sales may not be your daily "highest and best use".

Of course, I'm not letting anyone off the hook here either. Any entrepreneur that wants to achieve Critical Mass (a business that will run without them) MUST have an ongoing sales and marketing program. Simply put, even the best Value Added Service company suffers from "Customer Erosion". (Clients move away, forget who they called last time, get seduced away by the yellow truck sitting in their neighbors driveway and yes, even die!)

So IF you want to grow (some might say "survive") you need to get down in the trenches by a) making regular sales calls yourself or b) setting up sales reps to develop commercial maintenance routes. And yes, these reps WILL require DAILY training, management and accountability. Nobody ever said this stuff would be EASY!

Steve

PS Now if you hate BOTH 1) face-to-face selling and 2) managing other people to market for you then there is a valid third option- 3) build a high-priced, "boutique" cleaning operation where you personally do all the work. Just have logistical and financial back-ups in place in case something happens to you (twisted knee, car wreck, die, etc) and you will have a profitable and fulfilling career.

The problem is we tend to wind up somewhere in-between as in "too big but too small" and this usually is an agonizing business model long term.
 
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Shane Deubell

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Has nothing to do with cleaners , most people can't do sales.

Have to agree with steve, salespeople can manipulate a bid pretty easily.

It's a dog eat dog world....
 

mirf

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The point is I think you need a salesperson and it is the right thing for a small business.
Yes, as a owner I need to be in the trenches on sales. How much faster will a business grow with a dedicated sales person
in addition to the owner. No marketing compares to being in front of a prospect. If someone has a base and commission plan
that works for all parties salesperson, client, and the company is what I am after. Most people can do sales with the right system in place.
That does not mean they can be great at it but systems work.
 

Shane Deubell

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Think i like toms idea the best. Exactly how i started from day 1.

Hire a pt marketer to answer phones AND set appointments for you.
I want to hire a salesperson also but think we are not ready yet, its a transition IMO.

We have had around 600 estimates this way, well worth it for the money spent.
 
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TomKing

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David
I would like to respectfully disagree with you just because someone has a system even a good system for sales does not guarantee their success.

I have sold in and been trained in one of the best industries in the world. I have seen many individuals who just did not have the natural ability or skills to make it even with top training and systems.

I have watched very good friends agonize as they had to coach up and out highly educated individuals who could not meet expectations in these systems.

So if Fortune 500 companies have these problems how much harder will it be for one of our small companies?

I would really suggest you start to out line the roll of a client service position in your office to allow your self more time in the field.

I would bet if you took the time to survey 8-10 multi truck companies of 5- 20 trucks they would all have some very strong opinions about the importance of this roll in a healthy growing company.

We are hiring our second position right now to allow us to go to the next level. One person can handle 3-4 trucks well we are running 5-6 some days with our day and night crews and on those days it is over whelming.

If you are trying to answer phones and sell you are already maxed. you are 2-3.

Do a phone survey I would be interested to hear what you find out. I know what people told me 6 years ago.


The point is I think you need a salesperson and it is the right thing for a small business.
Yes, as a owner I need to be in the trenches on sales. How much faster will a business grow with a dedicated sales person
in addition to the owner. No marketing compares to being in front of a prospect. If someone has a base and commission plan
that works for all parties salesperson, client, and the company is what I am after. Most people can do sales with the right system in place.
That does not mean they can be great at it but systems work.
 

knoxclean

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True Tom there are no guarantees anywhere in life but the way I look at it if it works and its teachable its a system and you need to just repeat it to have success as long as you have the right people on board. Also I shy away from the term sales people. I don't consider myself very good at sales so I could never teach someone to do sales. I built my business by just getting to know people in the Real estate business, flooring retail stores and property management companies. People do business with people they know, like and trust. So when I looked for someone to do "sales" I didn't look for sales people I looked for a "social butterfly" . Both girls just love people and love to make friends and that's what has worked for us.
 

Shane Deubell

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True Tom there are no guarantees anywhere in life but the way I look at it if it works and its teachable its a system and you need to just repeat it to have success as long as you have the right people on board. Also I shy away from the term sales people. I don't consider myself very good at sales so I could never teach someone to do sales. I built my business by just getting to know people in the Real estate business, flooring retail stores and property management companies. People do business with people they know, like and trust. So when I looked for someone to do "sales" I didn't look for sales people I looked for a "social butterfly" . Both girls just love people and love to make friends and that's what has worked for us.

That is definitely an angle he can take, sounds more like marketers then salespeople though.
Do they give commercial estimates too?
 

TomKing

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See there you you have it! Sales is about relationships. Most people do not get that.

What you are talking about is more marketing than sales and I think for most small service companies is a better position to hire for.

We desperately need that position in our company.

Commercial sales does require a different set of skills that most will not have.
For commercial work you have to understand production to be able to bid properly.
someone who does marketing probably won't be able to do those bids. just measure sf won't be enough.

One approach is to have a seasoned tech do a technical walk through for the scope and then have the marketer go back for the presentation and service to close the sale.
That might work for some.

True Tom there are no guarantees anywhere in life but the way I look at it if it works and its teachable its a system and you need to just repeat it to have success as long as you have the right people on board. Also I shy away from the term sales people. I don't consider myself very good at sales so I could never teach someone to do sales. I built my business by just getting to know people in the Real estate business, flooring retail stores and property management companies. People do business with people they know, like and trust. So when I looked for someone to do "sales" I didn't look for sales people I looked for a "social butterfly" . Both girls just love people and love to make friends and that's what has worked for us.
 
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mirf

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True Tom there are no guarantees anywhere in life but the way I look at it if it works and its teachable its a system and you need to just repeat it to have success as long as you have the right people on board. Also I shy away from the term sales people. I don't consider myself very good at sales so I could never teach someone to do sales. I built my business by just getting to know people in the Real estate business, flooring retail stores and property management companies. People do business with people they know, like and trust. So when I looked for someone to do "sales" I didn't look for sales people I looked for a "social butterfly" . Both girls just love people and love to make friends and that's what has worked for us.


Yes, thank you. Tom I agree that true sales is one of the most diffulcut and rewarding fields to learn and that person would produce
more work than I could handle. A social representative in the market place at BNI meetings, Chamber of Commerce events, and saying
Hello I am from AllBrite Carpet Cleaning how may I help you. A social butterfly, I love it. Do you set the same goals for a butterfly?


Also I am at the point of not having a great CSR is a mistake and with school starting a great time to find someone at least part time during the school day.
 

TomKing

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chamber is a great thing to have on your routing.

my opinion BNI is a O/O 1 truck thing small service area source. 12-13 people half of who are probably selling weeds seeds and potions maybe 1 realtor, 1 agent, 1 plumber is not enough to justify the time commitment for a multi truck company. I can get the last 3 with out paying $400 dollar membership and have to make meetings where everyone stands in a circle and says the same thing time after time handing out referrals for half our normal job average from their family members. I also don't have to go to lunch and get pitched on some crap vitamin supplement. We did it for 15 months 6 years ago when we had time. They do this every week. If you did cold calling for 5 hours the time have to invest in BNI you would kill what a group would ever refer to you.

In your area their are way better groups for better paying business.

If you do get a part time CSR make them part time daily. We found if someone is not involved daily it is hard to keep up with what is going on in the company. Knowing what I know about their value if I was starting from scratch I would hire full time and never look back.

You set goals for every one this is a business not a hobby!

Yes, thank you. Tom I agree that true sales is one of the most diffulcut and rewarding fields to learn and that person would produce
more work than I could handle. A social representative in the market place at BNI meetings, Chamber of Commerce events, and saying
Hello I am from AllBrite Carpet Cleaning how may I help you. A social butterfly, I love it. Do you set the same goals for a butterfly?


Also I am at the point of not having a great CSR is a mistake and with school starting a great time to find someone at least part time during the school day.
 
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mirf

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What do you think about someone Monday thru Friday from 9Am until 2PM. I would like to hire full time but last winter was very slow due to weather.

My BNI group has a realtor and a mover that seem to have a referral every week as I do about cleaning a house so it can get listed. Could call them every week
but I do not think it would be the same. Been a member before and left
 

Shane Deubell

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Sounds good to me, based on how david describes his position.

Now when it comes to $5k bids or whatever, I would still do them myself.
Maybe if you find the right person they can transition into estimating over time.
 
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TomKing

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Get the position filled quickly and sell some monthly commercial to cover her salary.

This way you will not feel the pressure.

Then set up a good routing and out bound phone plan.

You will have the strongest spring ever I would be willing to wager.

What do you think about someone Monday thru Friday from 9Am until 2PM. I would like to hire full time but last winter was very slow due to weather.

My BNI group has a realtor and a mover that seem to have a referral every week as I do about cleaning a house so it can get listed. Could call them every week
but I do not think it would be the same. Been a member before and left
 

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