Notice It's been a while.....

[hogjowl]

I always imagine Ofer with one hand on his hip and the other up by his face wagging his finger in the air.

 

[Mikey P]

So the one time makes the difference? Bull.
Still a job. Still a client. Still people want perceived and real value and to be treated fairly. So, if it is a one no repeat job, according to you, you may as well take them to the cleaners?

Each of their employees did 1 sofa, 7 back pillows, 1 chair, 1 throw rugs, half a mattress and a bunch of what they quote $3.00 each thingies. And it took 2 and a half hours each. A good clip but not unheard of. Some here do it a lot faster than that.

I remember very well how some favorite members here were telling how they do a large sectional in half an hour without much lash back. Interesting. Same information completely different response, I guess it depends on who its coming from.

You obviously know zilch about overhead costs and insurance demands of the WD world.

Richard needs to earn 90k a month in WD before seeing a profit.

Whats your number, 4k?

 

[Mikey P]

And a client by definition is loyal repeat customer.

Do Richards WD customers have floods every year?

 

[Zee]

And a client by definition is loyal repeat customer.

Do Richards WD customers have floods every year?

Don't forget that most flood damage customers aren't the ones paying but their insurance company.

 

[Nate The Great]

And a client by definition is loyal repeat customer.

Do Richards WD customers have floods every year?

Believe it or not, some have it days later...

 

[ruff]

I know slightly more than Zilch about overhead and insurance.

And you are confusing and switching between subject matters.
Is your admonishing about their hourly rate?
How much they charge per item?
Not vacuuming?
Not being smart about creating real and perceived value?

If a water damage company's clients a re not repeat does it mean that they are not entitled to value. Does it really matter who pays for it? And this is not about Richard who I consider a good friend and know him to have an outstanding company with top notch standards and is personally a very ethical person.

So, what is the tirade about?
What's eating you sunshine?

 

[Mikey P]

Mostly about not vacuuming at those rates and declaration of superior service.

That shit pisses me off.

 

[Zee]

I always imagine Ofer with one hand on his hip and the other up by his face wagging his finger in the air.

 

[ruff]

Oy vey Zee.
Thank god you found the only picture in which I was actually smiling, girl....

 

[PrimaDonna]

Did Meg or Speedy ever say if the customer was home and watching?
I get the feeling he was...

The customer was not home. He wasn't unhappy with the results, he took issue with the hourly rate he calculated when he figured out how long we were there for. We called him after we arrived and did walk through with the total.
Then we notified him when we were done and leaving. That's how he knows how long we were there.

This has nothing to do with vacuuming. This whole vacuuming thing was an offshoot because people wanted to know if we vac for our pricing since they our prices are high compared to many and since many think "premium" service would include vacuuming.

Yea, they settled on $600

Only read the first 2 pages has there been resolution for the charges?

We have not come to an agreement yet.

 

[PrimaDonna]

Not being smart about creating real and perceived value?

I agree that this is what it all comes down to. Since this first time client was not home and could not do the walk through with us, he was not there for John do his review and "hand holding" with. He insisted we go to his home when he was not there and call him as he had just moved and works crazy hours and we don't do weekend appointments. We accommodated him and it bit us in the ass. When our clients are home, have the walk through, see the tarps, booties, corner guards, see the trucks, get the information, have us point out areas of concern and get the whole dog and pony show, the perceived value is there.

He was not home. He was not feeling well. He was on the job site and didn't have time to or want to listen to what John had to say. So he didn't get that value experience. All he knows is that we cleaned everything in 2.5 hours (5 actually since it was two guys, and two trucks) and he feels the hourly rate for 2 guys for 2.5 hours is outrageous. So, he only wants to pay his top hourly rate that he charges ($65) for 2 men at 2.5 hours.

Vacuuming has NOTHING to do with this situation. Vacuuming came up because many feel for the prices we charge and being a "premium" cleaner that we should be doing that. I'm not arguing that point at all. I believe we should be vacuuming to. But John has his reasons for not wanting to. You can lead a horse to water.....

 

[Bob Pruitt]

I believe we should be vacuuming to. But John has his reasons for not wanting to. You can lead a horse to water.....

So.... This is all about getting John to start vacuuming then?

 

[PrimaDonna]

declaration of superior service

Compared to what else is offered in this area, people perceive us as superior service providers. That is what our clients say about us over and over again. That is what they tell people when they refer us. That is what the post on social media. That is what they write on our comment cards. That is why we have won best of buck the past 5 years in a row. That is why we are growing year after year. We don't self proclaim ourselves as superior - our clients do!

I'm sorry this upsets you...and I have stated I believe we can improve...always should be striving for better and more. But just because your industry standard of superior doesn't match the perception of us in our community, doesn't' mean we aren't superior to what they are used to.

(mic drop)

 

[Mikey P]

I can tell you this, if he was there and spectating, VACUUMING would have played a huge part in perceived value.

And the 45 minutes or so that it would have added to your time may have helped since he wasnt..

 

[PrimaDonna]

So.... This is all about getting John to start vacuuming then?

Not at all. I had NO IDEA that this post would lead to a pre-vac discussion. Vacuuming wasn't even mentioned in my initial post.

If John wants to reconsider his position after reading these posts and give it a try, I would be really happy about that. But if he wants to do it the way he's been doing it then that is his prerogative. I know he greatly respects many of you here. Perhaps these comments will resonate with him coming from someone else other than me. But that was not at all what this post was about or the reason it was started.

 

[billyeadon]

How many of you have worked for a franchise like Stanley or Coit?

Do you remember at the end of the day when all the trucks came rolling in, there were always those braggarts who would high five one another and celebrate with their " Yeah man, $800 in one hour dude" or "I got them to do the whole house on a one room ticket, $500 and I had five more after that!"

while this whole thread sort of feels like that, I don't think this was Meg's intention.

Nor do I think she really needed advice on how to handle the dead beat. She's a tiger who knows exactly were to eviscerate weak prey.


Meg is a very smart woman who took over the office of an average carpet cleaning company and turned it into the top company in town with her feminine touch. Granted it's a 1.5 truck company, but in most towns in America, that's all the market will bear at their rates. If she wants to grow to 3 or more trucks she'll have to lower prices and advertise much more to keep the crew busy all year. (Same situation we are in in SCruz)
So what was Meg's real intent here in this thread? I think she's using our comments to leverage John into slowing down a bit and providing more value. I am willing to bet she hears complaints of how fast the crews went for the amount of money spent quite frequently.

It must be embarrassing for her to admit that her crews do not prevacuum when she's hob-nobbing at these weekly SFS and Jon Don events that she goes to, what seems like each month.

Can you imagine the look Pemberton would give you at one of his high end fabric seminars if you admitted that fiber faux pas??



my suggestion is this winter when things slow down, get John a Shark Clear Cup swivle vacuum. Start with this one https://www.amazon.com/SharkNinja-N...478187975&sr=8-6&keywords=shark+swivel+vacuum
It doesn't have the lame feature of running the hose through the D shaped handle so VACUUMING UPHOLSTERY is easy.
Keep on telling your clients to do the vacuuming but for a full month vacuum after them. If they ask why just be honest and tell them you are thinking of adding this step to your process and see what their reaction is. most if not all will be thrilled. Guaranteed.
If it's a piss job use their vacuum (explain why with out embarrassing them) or go around the puddles if possible.

Do two or three slow passes on entry areas , in front of the TV sofa, where the pets sleep and all pivot areas through out the home.

Whats in the dirt cup will shock you.

Ask home owners how they vacuum their staircases. With the Shark and it's 10" head you'll be able to run it side to side on most steps and in most cases that carpet will be seeing a brush roll for the first time in it's life. Use an attachment for crevices and the brush tool on the bull nose.

If it's real bad tell the home owner that you are concerned about their vacuum and ask to inspect it. You'll find clogged hoses, stretched out or missing belts, bags that weigh 50 pounds that can't fit one more pop corn kernel, worn to the nub brush rolls and the best, those stupid robot "vacuums" being used as the main vacuum.

Learn to work on vacuums and more importantly learn how to suggest the best model/brand when that ask for suggestions.

The concern you show will blow them away and will be the topic of discussion the next time the ladies get together at the golf or tennis club. Ask me how I know this.


If John does not see the value in adding pre vacuuming to your procedures after a month, then I'll question his morality. Seriously.



Use that Shark until it dies, go through another so you can study more on where dry soils really collect in a home then graduate to a good bagged vacuum and that Hoover Power Port that I linked to earlier for edges and upholstery. Royals and Kirby's are better than Sanitaires only in that the belts last way longer.








drop the mic.

OK finally by post #145 this is the post that should be copied on every BB. Totally agree.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I can't think of many posts that Meg has made that haven't created a great deal of conversation. It a testimony to this place that, for the most part, it stayed extremely positive.

Its also a testimony to Meg's confidence and character that she responded positively and had the strength of her convictions to speak about her pricing system with firm resolve, and yet remained respectful and open minded to the technical criticisms that were brought up, as I'm sure John will too.

I think Bill Yeadon will agree with me that by far very few cleaners vacuum first. The longer a cleaner cleans without doing so, the more challenging it becomes to break that habit and add in another step that appears to be time consuming. Most of us will admit that at one time or another we learned that we should be doing things differently than had been our custom, and how challenging it was to change our techniques.

This entire discussion has made this thread a "must read" for cleaners who may now just be entering this field.

 

[Billy]

I was going to suggest that, but the Burdik's sound a lot like the Hicks in their adamant stance on their pricing...

"You can shear a sheep many times but skin him only once" ...indeed...I learned that early on but not early enough for a few clients I lost over "Bulletin Board Pricing"

This particular dude doesn't sound like he was ever going to be a good long term customer but how many have they lost over these slam bam events that must occur frequently seeing how Meg showed us their $800 job average..

I had this very discussion with her in Atlanta when she told me they charge $3.00 a foot to clean and seal tile and grout. Sure people will try that once or every five or ten years but many people need their Travertine and other absorbent tiles cleaned as often as their carpet.
With those types of home we clean the floor for .50 (easier than carpet) and re seal with Cobbs (Dirt cheap and can be applied in seconds) for .30 to .40, or even less at times to promote more frequent cleanings) Why not since at .20 on carpet it's still great money.

I always said to each his own on pricing I was told early on by my mentors we wouldn't make it in volume pricing.

Our pricing made us a good living for 24yrs though

On site estimates started at $50.00
Carpet wall to wall starting at $0.85psf
protector $0.30psf
Tile cleaning started at $2.00psf
Tile Sealer $1.00psf
Wood cleaning started at $1.00psf
Wood refinishing started at $2.35 psf
Upholstery started at $30.00 plf
Upholstery protector was $12.00 plf
Oriental rugs started at $8.00 psf
Mattress started at $300.00

work orders signed before work begins for meeting of the minds.
No terms not even for the occasional commercial. Lost over 100k early on from terms.
Invoice signed after walk thru of completed job.
Bounce checks not tolerated luckily only 4 in 24yrs all collected on.

No gimmicks or coupons either.

Also many of our clients were repeats for many years.

 

[PrimaDonna]

Wow, @Billy Sounds a lot like us.

At this point, we don't want the volume. More volume, more expenses, more employees, more head ache. At one point in time, that was my goal...when I first joined John I though I wanted to help him grow to a 4-5 truck operation. But being in the industry for 10 years, I've seen the pros and cons of big vs. little. We have a great niche doing what we do. We make a good living and have a lot less hassles by keeping things smaller. 2 trucks full time, doing what we do would be all I think I want to grow to at this point. Keep it smaller, profitable and less to worry about and manage. That may change, bur for now that's the goal. If we can grow to that, have a great team and systems in place that let us expand further than that, we would explore that when the time comes.

 

[billyeadon]

I can't think of many posts that Meg has made that haven't created a great deal of conversation. It a testimony to this place that, for the most part, it stayed extremely positive.

Its also a testimony to Meg's confidence and character that she responded positively and had the strength of her convictions to speak about her pricing system with firm resolve, and yet remained respectful and open minded to the technical criticisms that were brought up, as I'm sure John will too.

I think Bill Yeadon will agree with me that by far very few cleaners vacuum first. The longer a cleaner cleans without doing so, the more challenging it becomes to break that habit and add in another step that appears to be time consuming. Most of us will admit that at one time or another we learned that we should be doing things differently than had been our custom, and how challenging it was to change our techniques.

This entire discussion has made this thread a "must read" for cleaners who may now just be entering this field.

Couldn't agree more with Jim.

 

[Mikey P]

Oriental rugs started at $8.00 psf

to do what? Did you have a plant?

 

[Shane Deubell]

Personally would make him pay the full amount if he agreed to it. That's his problem, gawd knows I have a couple $10k in buyers remorse every year. We would all be millionaires if we could have all the money back from our poor decisions.

Overall meg has a great owner operator business model going on but it's not very repeatable or scalable.

We get a commercial anomaly probably every couple months, the thing is clients always feel taken even if it was their fault. I would much rather have $800 in repeat work then $1200 1x.

 

[Billy]

to do what? Did you have a plant?

clean them

Not a big fancy setup just portable stuff when needed, pit, dryers etc....most likely same as any small operation has done for years. Most important thing was never had a client unsatisfied with our cleaning of rugs. Even had many say we did better than the previous cheaper cleanings they had.

 

[Green Clean LLC]

On the flip side, you could be involved in a lawsuit.

 

[dealtimeman]

For what??

 

[Mikey P]

Not pre vacuuming..

 

[Nate The Great]

Not pre vacuuming..

@The Great Oz What's the verdict on pre vacuuming homes without disturbing and redistributing the contaminated air?!?

We do have too much sand not to prevac...

 

[rick imby]

I totally disagree. If it was only light soiling and needed very little cleaning then to "me" it is wrong to charge for the full boat.

2.5 hours is not very much time spent on the job. I don't think wasting more time there doing nothing, is the right thing to do either.

Charge whatever rate you want, I'm not saying you are too high, I'm saying you over charged for the services you delivered.

Its a fragile relationship we have with all our clients. They can choose to call someone else without breaking a contract. Burn one and he tells many other and creates a wave that attacks a reputation that took years to build.

Right or wrong this client feels wronged, I'd do what I could to fix the situation and repair whatever is wrong with the system so it doesn't happen again.

"You can shear a sheep many times but skin him only once"

Chavez you speak with the wizdom way beyond your many years.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Considering how many hours are actually spent on the job and how many air movers dehus etc are clocking in the $+$+$ while nobody actually works. How much per hour, really spent on the job working, does Chavez Resto make per hour?

I bet its Way wAY more than the mighty Burdicks.

Its not about how much is charged per hour. Its a feeling of getting value from your purchasing decision.

Yes those restoration numbers would be high but when the clients see the time and effort we put into saving their home & possessions they are our best resources when arguing with insurance representatives.

In the Burdicks case I don't believe the price is what caused the issue. Didn't the client agree to the estimate? I believe he felt that he didn't receive value for the money spent. Vacuum or no vacuum, he felt taken when he calculated what money was spent vs the time spent there.

Had he asked how long is this going to take when the job was estimated, I doubt he would have booked the job knowing it was going to be done in 2.5 hours.

This is about perceived value. Not price per hour. Not vacuuming.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Don't forget that most flood damage customers aren't the ones paying but their insurance company.

They all have to pay something and that something is getting larger and larger. Most deductibles are now $1,000.00

We are the best value for the non-insured. I prefer to deal with people, facilities managers rather than insurance companies. They realize the value of our service where insurances companies see us as just another Tom, Dick or Chavez.