Buyers remorse....?

[Able 1]

I disagree, and would like to see your test results..

 

[Mikey P]

I would have given the guy a fat discount as he was paying the bill and you obviously want his future referrals, who will be paying full price.


I use to be "Price Proud" too..



Very foolish IMO.

I lost a designer/furniture store referral for charging full price on her disgusting house.

I've learned to never price a job like this while I'm there cleaning and in a Marty mood.

Sleep it off and think about long term value of the client/referral source then through them a bone.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I would have given the guy a fat discount as he was paying the bill and you obviously want his future referrals, who will be paying full price.


I use to be "Price Proud" too..



Very foolish IMO.

I lost a designer/furniture store referral for charging full price on her disgusting house.

I've learned to never price a job like this while I'm there cleaning and in a Marty mood.

Sleep it off and think about long term value of the client/referral source then through them a bone.

.. finally!

 

[WillS]

We scored a lot of business from a large flooring store here. How we did this: By discounting the first cleaning we ever did for them on their own office location. I quoted the owner .24c sq ft for their showroom. She told me another company they used was quoting at .12c. I asked what happened to them? They went out of business the other month.

So I dropped the price to .18c and she went with it even though she still wanted the .12c she was used to. Carpet came out great and we started bullshitting about Facebook advertising, etc. At the end of the cleaning she asked for a stack of flyers and received about 10 jobs from them.

Lowering the price got us in the door. She doesn't care what we are charging the people she refers, but when it comes to their own pocket, that makes all the difference.

I would have told the guy you could work with pricing in the future and tell him you offer credits for referrals, etc. Many Referrals from this guy could have made up for the $60 more you needed to charge him to keep your roi. This applies to property managers to who are always trying to get a discount because the other guy used to do it cheaper. Well, send us more business and I don't mind taking 10% off each property.

 

[PrimaDonna]

Good business people understand that for a relationship to be of value, it has to benefit both parties. And an honest conversation rarely hurts anybody. And a talk is a lot better than an email. It will only be worth it for you, if they send new and good clients.

Totally agree. That is why I asked for a meeting with him in my email response:

I'd like to meet with you to get a better understanding of your needs, potential referral opportunities and review how our referral program works. I think if we have a better understanding of what your goals are, we would be in a better position to come up with a solution that will be a win-win for all of us.

I do realize after John explained to me that you added a step back into to help protect the fibers, understood.
I get it you sprayed something on the carpet and charged me more

We didn't charge more for the protector to be re-applied. It was included in our min. charge since the area we were cleaning was a few spots. Normally we charge to re-apply protection on top of cleaning price.

Thanks everyone who has posted and shared your perspective. This is great stuff and a lot to consider.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I disagree, and would like to see your test results..

I can send some before and after pics and the way I did the tests if you like Keith, just PM your email address to me.

An even better thing to do is to test things yourself: What inspired me to do my tests were conflicting statements made by marketing people versus technical people, and of course the wide variety of ways we spot, clean, and protect things.

I would also be glad to share the ways I set up my tests so that you can try it yourself with the products you use, on what you most want to see test results on.

 

[rick imby]

I would have given the guy a fat discount as he was paying the bill and you obviously want his future referrals, who will be paying full price.


I use to be "Price Proud" too..



Very foolish IMO.

I lost a designer/furniture store referral for charging full price on her disgusting house.

I've learned to never price a job like this while I'm there cleaning and in a Marty mood.

Sleep it off and think about long term value of the client/referral source then through them a bone.

What you charge others in your industry has no bearing on what you charge regular customers.

It seems to me that many carpet cleaners rate themselves by how high they can raise their minimum charge--I'm better than Mikey because I have a higher minimum.

The Minimum is irrelevant. The end of month Gross and end of month Gross/Net Margin are what matter. Raising the minimum can have the opposite effect on profit.

Ever turn a $100 minimum charge into a $1200 job? Not if your minimum is $169.95...

 

[PrimaDonna]

I don't think having a higher min charge than someone makes them better. It's relevant to your market and profitability. Our minimum is set based on what we need to do to cover operating cost to get to the job and our techs wages and to be able to make some profit. It has nothing to do with how much anyone else charges in our area, much less any place else in the country.

Ever turn a $100 minimum charge into a $1200 job? Not if your minimum is $169.95...

As a matter of fact... We have had jobs where we were going to to a min. charge and they added other rooms, tile and grout and/or upholstery once we got there. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

 

[steve_64]

It would happen more often if you have the opportunity to get in more doors.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Most carpet retailers don't care who they recommend to their customers as long as they are getting something for free or next to it. I will never negotiate with them.

I do however have carpet salespeople in multiple retailers that recommend me because they get what I do. They get nothing out of it except the pleasure of recommending someone that is honest and does good work. Just I as recommend other professionals that I like and trust. Why does it always have to be about discounts and kick backs?

 

[ruff]

It seems to me that many carpet cleaners rate themselves by how high they can raise their minimum charge--I'm better than Mikey because I have a higher minimum.

The Minimum is irrelevant. The end of month Gross and end of month Gross/Net Margin are what matter. Raising the minimum can have the opposite effect on profit.

Ever turn a $100 minimum charge into a $1200 job? Not if your minimum is $169.95...

Rick, anybody that does that, is not a business person, yet has certain ego issues.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. Hell, I know of at least one huge, overbuilt machine, whose main reason of existence (beside the few that actually needed and utilized it correctly) was to massage that sensitive body part .

However, minimums do have a place. It depends on your business structure, how busy you are and long term goals. For every single story of the legendary tiny job that lead to the huge one later (and I have a few myself) there will be at least a hundred that did not.
I know, because I did it.

The people that want "just this tiny small job this time" at a huge discount (always seem to be accompanied by how many rental units they have, or friends, or rich uncles .....) hardly ever become larger jobs. Miraculously, they always want "just this little job this time" surprisingly (you guessed it) at a huge discount.
And many of the dealers that want a special discount, always want that special discount, without referring the business.

For a successful company whose time slots are usually filled up at least a few days in advance, doing that at such a low price is a loss. A loss they will be willing to take, if it leads to new and good clients.

How many bicycle parts do you send at a loss + free shipping + free return if they don't like it (for whatever damn reason they can think of), naturally shipped back at your cost?
With some, that bread over the water may come back, as long as you pay the return shipping and have a soft spot for wet bread

It has to be a working relationship that benefits both. The magical power of reciprocation.

Capiche?



And just in case you're not into long verbal posts, here's a picture that may help you understand it better.
You decide, who's who:

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

Lot of input on this thread. You want his business yer gonna have to communicate on this one. He sounds like a consumer who didn't get the perceived value he paid for. Sure sure he could be a cheap guy in the end but that's another matter. He's big boy, put it in his court when you sit down with him and make him tell you what a fair price is for your services. I've done it many times, changes the whole conversation. Try it.

 

[Mrice]

Prime example last week a Local Interior Designer/Decorating store sold a huge white used, natural fiber sectional with detached cushions to a client. Sometimes they buy whole homes of high end furniture...I digress. They told the purchaser of this new white sectional they would have it cleaned. It wasn't very dirty, but it did have some signs of soiling. It was 18 linear feet. It would not have been a quick job.

One side of me says do if for free or very cheap so they see how you work and what a great job I do.
The other side says they are just trying to get this done cheaply and they are probably motivated more by price than quality...

I would have charged a home owner $435, I told them I would do it for $265. No love. Where did I go wrong or where they just the wrong client from the beginning?

 

[Doug Cox]

They won't be calling you back.

Or not their main cleaner. They are what I call a " Not Loyal Customer". They only call when they are in a bind and their mediocre (and cheaper) regular cleaner isn't available or doesn't show up (usually the latter).

 

[Jimmy L]

Not for that $175 min

 

[PrimaDonna]

Why does it always have to be about discounts and kick backs?

It isn't.

I think it depends on the person/retailer. We have relationships with 4 other retailers in the area that send us business and don't get any type of referral. Two are smaller boutique type stores and the others are larger. One with multiple locations. They just want their clients happy with the service and it makes them look good to refer a reputable company that shows up when they say they will. They don't want calls from their clients saying they person you recommended didn't call back, was late, didn't do a good job.

It's all about finding out what their pain is. For some it's the wallet and $$, for others they don't want a hassle, some want to "barter" referrals for "free" cleaning of their home or showroom floor, some want the edge of the warranty program we offer on new installs cause it gives them an edge over the competition.

The other retailer we picked up in the last month was one we wanted to work with for a while. They also had another cleaner they had used. One of their very prestigious (and by their description PIA) clients used us to clean (found us on his own). He had an issue with the carpet and it ended up being a warranty claim. The retailer called us for information and documentation to help them put the claim through. Said the customer had great things to say about us and the work we did for him. They had a problem/pain and we solved it. It led to a discussion about how they have been unhappy with the current person they've been referring (customer service really slipping). He asked for marketing materials, John stopped in that afternoon and he handed out the cards to all the sales associates and said they were to refer us from now on. We've done 3 jobs for referrals they sent us since then.

Everyone has a different motivation.....just like your employees. Some prefer the raise or bonus, others really like recognition, some prefer you taking them out for a ball game or a day of golf or family passes to an amusement park.

We are all about being creative and thinking outside the box to forge mutually beneficial relationships. But it has to work for all involved.

If this retailer is only looking for a deal on any work we do for them, then it really isn't the right fit for us.

 

[Mikey P]

which brings up "My Flooring Warranty"


it was at their booth in Dallas that I first met you Meg.

What ever became of that program, for you and John Mape's company?

 

[Shane Deubell]

For me it would depend on the volume. $10k a year in work sure we will give them a break on some in house work.

Not for $1k year though.

 

[Mikey P]

Prime example last week a Local Interior Designer/Decorating store sold a huge white used, natural fiber sectional with detached cushions to a client. Sometimes they buy whole homes of high end furniture...I digress. They told the purchaser of this new white sectional they would have it cleaned. It wasn't very dirty, but it did have some signs of soiling. It was 18 linear feet. It would not have been a quick job.

One side of me says do if for free or very cheap so they see how you work and what a great job I do.
The other side says they are just trying to get this done cheaply and they are probably motivated more by price than quality...

I would have charged a home owner $435, I told them I would do it for $265. No love. Where did I go wrong or where they just the wrong client from the beginning?

Was this the first time the store referred you? If the shop sold it at a used discount, your price may have been half their profit? (@TomKing )

Are you in an area where people are exposed to $49 Any Sofa Cleaned coupons?



I can't tell you how many times we've been asked to clean a sofa somebody bought from a friend or garage sale where our cleaning cost is twice what they paid.

 

[Mikey P]

For me it would depend on the volume. $10k a year in work sure we will give them a break on some in house work.

Not for $1k year though.

Prior to Obama getting into office we were doing 1oo to 200 some odd retailer referred jobs a year


Than the Googleman appeared and now I bet we do less than 20..



Why call the retailer when you can type "Best carpet cleaner Santa Cruz"...?

 

[PrimaDonna]

which brings up "My Flooring Warranty"


it was at their booth in Dallas that I first met you Meg.

What ever became of that program, for you and John Mape's company?

We are still using it. Have had some retailers in and out of it. The success hinges on them entering the warranties. Some of the smaller retailers didn't have the time to do it. We revisited it with them when I saw that warranties weren't coming through and I knew they were selling carpet, and they decided not to continue with the program. They continue to refer us. MFW gave us a valid business reason to approach them and start a relationship. Even though they didn't stay in the program, they still refer us, so I consider it a success.

The multi store retailer that uses it has a large staff and they have one person that enters all the warranties for them. We developed a spin off program with them to offer a free (to customer) open area cleaning to be completed with in year of install if they purchase an upgraded padding. The retailer pays us directly for the cleaning at a discounted rate. We only clean the open areas as part of the "free" cleaning. They pay us after we clean and submit the receipt. If the client doesn't take advantage of the free cleaning, then the retailer isn't paying us and they pocket the money. (See, everyone has different motivations....)

If the clients who are eligible for the free cleaning, want furniture moved and protection re-applied, we charge them for that. It's worked out well and we've gotten add on rooms and other work when we go out to do the free spot and spill or the free open area cleaning.

I still like the program and recommend to others. But, like anything else you have to work it and have a retailer that is on board and will do their part. Nothing is a magic bullet.

I haven't spoken with John in a while. When I asked about him at ICRA booth in Atlanta (He is the ICRA president, I think, or at least was), they told me he was dealing with some health issues.

 

[PrimaDonna]

Why call the retailer when you can type "Best carpet cleaner Santa Cruz"...?

Because if the customer trusts the retailer, then they will go to them for a referral.

I'd much rather ask for recommendations from friends, family, coworkers, people I trust, than do a google search for something. You don't always know what you're going to get.

BUT, I see the tide changing now that online reviews are becoming so prevalent. While googling alone may not get you the job, a ton of great reviews on google, yelp, etc. by many people hold weight and will.

 

[Mikey P]

Yelp is what I was implying.


People on the left coast trust it.

 

[Mrice]

I don't want to hijack Megs thread.
This was the first time, they were not referring me, they were using me, to clean a sofa on their floor they already sold. I hear you on the profit, on the other hand how much they are making or not making does not factor into how long it takes me to do a good job. It was a huge sectional, I'd be surprised if a hack would clean it for $100.

Was this the first time the store referred you? If the shop sold it at a used discount, your price may have been half their profit? (@TomKing )

Are you in an area where people are exposed to $49 Any Sofa Cleaned coupons?



I can't tell you how many times we've been asked to clean a sofa somebody bought from a friend or garage sale where our cleaning cost is twice what they paid.

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

Yelp is a joke in my area as of late; don't get me started. I'd pull the plug on my free place page but I don't want to piss off any of the other algorithm gods.....

 

[Cleanworks]

Just a thought on min. Charges. To set your min charge you first have to find out what your cost is. To send out 1 or 2 people somewhere with a very expensive truck and equipment, your fuel cost, chemistry cost, other overhead, etc, work for maybe a hour and try to at least break even, if not make a tiny profit. Our min is $120, for that we will clean an empty 1-bedroom apt. I don't discount that for anybody. If I am lucky, I make $20 on a job like that after expenses. I have many buildings that I clean 1 and 2 bedroom suites and don't make a lot of money on but I also get to clean all the hallways and common areas once a year, where I make up to $300 per hour, so it works out in the end.

 

[Barry-QDCC]

Prior to Obama getting into office we were doing 1oo to 200 some odd retailer referred jobs a year

Than the Googleman appeared and now I bet we do less than 20..

Why call the retailer when you can type "Best carpet cleaner Santa Cruz"...?

I'm not a fan of his but with the way you started your reply I thought you were going to blame Obama for the reduced call count.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Yeah I thought maybe he opened up a cleaning bidnuss.

 

[rick imby]

Yeah I thought maybe he opened up a cleaning bidnuss.

He did---8 Trillion Dollars of New debt that he used to repay the unions and companies that put him there. He cleaned out our finances....

 

[rick imby]

Rick, anybody that does that, is not a business person, yet has certain ego issues.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. Hell, I know of at least one huge, overbuilt machine, whose main reason of existence (beside the few that actually needed and utilized it correctly) was to massage that sensitive body part .

However, minimums do have a place. It depends on your business structure, how busy you are and long term goals. For every single story of the legendary tiny job that lead to the huge one later (and I have a few myself) there will be at least a hundred that did not.
I know, because I did it.

The people that want "just this tiny small job this time" at a huge discount (always seem to be accompanied by how many rental units they have, or friends, or rich uncles .....) hardly ever become larger jobs. Miraculously, they always want "just this little job this time" surprisingly (you guessed it) at a huge discount.
And many of the dealers that want a special discount, always want that special discount, without referring the business.

For a successful company whose time slots are usually filled up at least a few days in advance, doing that at such a low price is a loss. A loss they will be willing to take, if it leads to new and good clients.

How many bicycle parts do you send at a loss + free shipping + free return if they don't like it (for whatever damn reason they can think of), naturally shipped back at your cost?
With some, that bread over the water may come back, as long as you pay the return shipping and have a soft spot for wet bread

It has to be a working relationship that benefits both. The magical power of reciprocation.

Capiche?



And just in case you're not into long verbal posts, here's a picture that may help you understand it better.
You decide, who's who:

I agree Ofer there are a lot of people that "I just want this little spot done now but I will refer you bla bla bla"

However Meg stated she has been after this particular customer.

I would have sent the bill differently ----I may be wrong but

My bill would have had the Charge 175 for the minimum, and $25 for protector and 20% for the last minute rush job---then I would have discounted it to $100 and hand delivered the bill to the man in charge.

But Meg has an advantage over most of us as most old guys will gladly open up a time slot to sit down with her.....

He will know what the subject of the visit will be... I have no doubt that Meg could easily bring up the referal subject.

The $175 bill is not a door opener even after defending that she did not charge for protector.