What's this truck mount worth(Ace 860)?

[Able 1]

I know these have been known to have a lot of problems, and rarely see one with over 1000 hour that hasn't had a ton of work done to them. From what I have read the biggest problem is the blower coupler. This one froze hard enough to crack to freeze the stainless heat exchangers, so I would guess the brass heli coil and water pump is also shot. After the big freeze they drained the water out of everything. The machine has only 322 hours, but hasn't been cleaning carpet for at least 5 years though they do start it every once and a while.

Seems to me I would be buying someone's problem, but it has good components( 59 blower, and Nissan engine). So what you offer:
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[SMRBAP]

Figure out what the engine, blower, and pump is worth used. The sum of those parts, no more.

From an engineering standpoint - the frame on these units are extremely deficient. You could probably weld some old huffy bike frames together with more rigidity.

You have a direct coupled blower, which to not eat blower output shafts every 400-800 hrs, must remain within tolerances in the thousands of an inch in 3 directions - and upon startup, you can watch the frame deflect 1/4 to a 1/2".

In a nutshell - it's not a hays coupler issue if you keep them greased, it's an alignment (keeping it aligned) issue. Your choices are either having someone add a lot of secondary bracing in this frame and upgrading just about every mount (If memory serves, 4 - 9/16 studs and nuts are all that hold the front side of the engine) - or having someone like Judson take the main components and fab them to a new frame.

- the computer MUST be relocated - along with rerouting / heat insulating of a good bit the wiring.

- if the hx'er diverter is the cable driven model - you might as well scrap the whole hx and get a little giant. It simply can not be made to work reliably. If it is the vacuum hose driven system, you need to install better lines to it and insulate them. Even with that - you'll still be replacing the actuator frequently.

- stock up on temp sensors, I believe they are 180, 240, and either 260-280-or 300 degree ones. You'll go through those frequently as well.

- the upper water box, likes to jiggle itself apart, pad it with some rubber underneath it

- unless your area has very soft water, you have to have a softener - period. There are 3-4 places that will literally scale up within 6-8 hrs of use that will render the heat diversion system useless and cause the machine to hit >300 and shut down. When it gets that high, the second stage heat exchanger actually overheats the nissan - and you are down for 20-30 minutes

- there is so much vibration, any wire, line, or hose, that rests or touches anything, must be wrapped in a secondary hose, or you will be replacing wires, lines, and hoses monthly or sooner.

When it is running properly - it is a fire breathing beast. I ran mine with a rotary tool and wand simultaneously and the unit still had to dump over excess heat. It will suck the shirt off your back. Problem is - you work on it more than it works for you.

Unless you plan on stripping the main components, fabbing up a new TM out of it - steer clear.

 

[dealtimeman]

What's the price?

 

[Able 1]

Figure out what the engine, blower, and pump is worth used. The sum of those parts, no more.

From an engineering standpoint - the frame on these units are extremely deficient. You could probably weld some old huffy bike frames together with more rigidity.

You have a direct coupled blower, which to not eat blower output shafts every 400-800 hrs, must remain within tolerances in the thousands of an inch in 3 directions - and upon startup, you can watch the frame deflect 1/4 to a 1/2".

In a nutshell - it's not a hays coupler issue if you keep them greased, it's an alignment (keeping it aligned) issue. Your choices are either having someone add a lot of secondary bracing in this frame and upgrading just about every mount (If memory serves, 4 - 9/16 studs and nuts are all that hold the front side of the engine) - or having someone like Judson take the main components and fab them to a new frame.

- the computer MUST be relocated - along with rerouting / heat insulating of a good bit the wiring.

- if the hx'er diverter is the cable driven model - you might as well scrap the whole hx and get a little giant. It simply can not be made to work reliably. If it is the vacuum hose driven system, you need to install better lines to it and insulate them. Even with that - you'll still be replacing the actuator frequently.

- stock up on temp sensors, I believe they are 180, 240, and either 260-280-or 300 degree ones. You'll go through those frequently as well.

- the upper water box, likes to jiggle itself apart, pad it with some rubber underneath it

- unless your area has very soft water, you have to have a softener - period. There are 3-4 places that will literally scale up within 6-8 hrs of use that will render the heat diversion system useless and cause the machine to hit >300 and shut down. When it gets that high, the second stage heat exchanger actually overheats the nissan - and you are down for 20-30 minutes

- there is so much vibration, any wire, line, or hose, that rests or touches anything, must be wrapped in a secondary hose, or you will be replacing wires, lines, and hoses monthly or sooner.

When it is running properly - it is a fire breathing beast. I ran mine with a rotary tool and wand simultaneously and the unit still had to dump over excess heat. It will suck the shirt off your back. Problem is - you work on it more than it works for you.

Unless you plan on stripping the main components, fabbing up a new TM out of it - steer clear.

A lot of good info there, thanks..

 

[Able 1]

What's the price?

I told him I would post it here to see what you guys thought. He doesn't know what to ask for it. It is in a 2003 chevy 1 ton with 24000 miles, but I'm not interested in the van. I think the van would be worth more without the TM in it anyway. He also has an aluminum 110 gallon fresh water tank, 250' hose reel, aluminum shelf (at least I think it was aluminum).

 

[dealtimeman]

brace the frame adding multiple supports ensuring alignment will hold and address other issues stated by indy and for a great price might be a good machine.

i will say i have heard a lot about this machine flexes and moves so it will need a lot of support/structural reinforcement but could be a good machine for the right price. i like it because it has my favorite blower in it, a 59.

cobb has a new one sitting on his floor right now, maybe give larry a call about these machines and he used to sell and service them.

 

[Dolly Llama]

toss out a low ball offer of $1000-$1200..see if he nibbles
(don't tell Lockhart where it's at, or he'll get it for $1300)





..L.T.A.

 

[GeneMiller]

Id like the unit just for the engine if the hrs aren't to high.

gene

 

[dealtimeman]

toss out a low ball offer of $1000-$1200..see if he nibbles
(don't tell Lockhart where it's at, or he'll get it for $1300)





..L.T.A.

I would get it for $500.00

 

[SamIam]

Larry has one for sale new 21k and theres a guy here who owned one from rosamond. I'll look for his name. Gerson
Gtech12v this is his user name message him he knows the machine inside and out.

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[Larry Cobb]

brace the frame adding multiple supports ensuring alignment will hold and address other issues stated by indy and for a great price might be a good machine.

i will say i have heard a lot about this machine flexes and moves so it will need a lot of support/structural reinforcement but could be a good machine for the right price. i like it because it has my favorite blower in it, a 59.

cobb has a new one sitting on his floor right now, maybe give larry a call about these machines and he used to sell and service them.

We have several 860's out in the field for 10 years, without anything other than minor repairs.

The Hayes coupler has performed well for my customers.

http://www.cobbcarpet.com/ch860.html

2" Steel Box Frame still looks very strong to me.

Nissan is one of the best TM engines ever made.

Larry

 

[Able 1]

We have several 860's out in the field for 10 years, without anything other than minor repairs.

The Hayes coupler has performed well for my customers.

http://www.cobbcarpet.com/ch860.html

2" Steel Box Frame still looks very strong to me.

Nissan is one of the best TM engines ever made.

Larry

I think you are the first person that I have heard from with anything good to say about this TM.. How much is it to replace all the HX'ers, and do you have them in stock?

 

[idreadnought]

I might have heat exchangers for that machine. Are they about 4 foot long 5 inch round stainless. 2 of them? I bought it for a project and never used them. Im not looking to dump them cheap though, stainless heat exchangers are very expensive. and these are made like a tank, kinda surprised they cracked. As a side not, they probably can be repaired.

 

[SMRBAP]

I had not one but two of these machines. Both were non-stop nightmares that nearly put my company under. I replaced 3 blowers on one unit before 2400 hours, even having a roots distributor laser align the blower (under my supervision) every 5-6 months at a cool $400-500 a pop. Every blower lost was roots factory assessed as due to mis-alignment. (S -factured drive shafts).

I'm not some shade tree 3 tool hack - penn state educated engineer - several years in product dev, specifically design for manufacture having worked on projects such as a revised allison tranny's for US tanks. Not beating on my chest - just qualifying, I have legs under my assessment as a previous owner.

From an engineering standpoint - these machines are held together with bubble gum and duct tape.

Maybe there are a few lucky folks in the mix that had some bric brac changes on a select few TM's that bettered the unit - I know Al at Chemspec was throwing spaghetti at the wall often to come up with fixes, even a no contact magnetic blower drive system - because they knew the failure rate of blowers on their units - maybe a few noodles stuck on a handful of TM's.

What I listed is the short list of major issues - there were so many others I couldn't even begin to list them all. 2 premix tanks fractured, 4-5 fractured engine mounts, 2 fractured exhaust headers, 2 zenith computers/controllers, multiple dozens of temp sensors, mac valve issues right and left, solenoid that would block with any sand grain sized intruder, overheating issues on hot days - the list could go on.

The money you will put into this TM to ensure it is at it's (respective) maximum reliability level - puts you into a better TM imo.

But if you do decide to buy it - I can tear an 860 down and re-assemble it in my sleep - I can help you diagnose anything on it.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Damn! What a nightmare!!!!

Dude you've got staying power to have survived those units!

 

[SamIam]

Thats why I recommend Gerson He 's a wrench and tear down guy, he made some fixes to his and loved it.

PS its threads like these that assures Larry will have the last 860 another 15 years before he sells it.

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[SMRBAP]

I'm as resilient as it gets Doc.

But after losing hundreds of jobs over the course of ownership - who knows how many tens of thousands of dollars - I learned not to gamble in business, plan and research - twice - then make a move.

I completely reworked mine - made it very clear what my challenges were, and sold it to someone who walked in with eye's wide open - and at less than the cost of the rework.

In hindsight - I should have kept it, and paid Judson to build me a new frame, engine turning blower via belts only, and made a floodsucka

 

[Desk Jockey]

No you're better off without it. Seriously. Projects like that can waste a lot of energy and funds. You were better off cutting your losses and moving on.

 

[gtech12v]

Ok , here it go the unit you are looking to buy is a Chemspec made by ACE everything Anthony mention about this unit is true, buy it for parts the frame is made out of steel that is way it flexes too much , the one I had is the ACE860 SS the frame is SS much stronger
I modified this unit with a Thermostat , relocated the ECU rewire and soldered all connections ,changed all the hoses to 3/8 put filters on the dumping lines I sold the unit about a year ago it has about 4000 hours with no problems at all if you find an ACE 860SS get it the unit is heavy the vacuum and heat is great 250 all day with a high flow wand no problem (notice the ecu mounted in the front panel to keep it cool)

 

[gtech12v]

here is a nice ACE 860 SS http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/for/4386474660.html

 

[Alex1024]

I might have heat exchangers for that machine. Are they about 4 foot long 5 inch round stainless. 2 of them? I bought it for a project and never used them. Im not looking to dump them cheap though, stainless heat exchangers are very expensive. and these are made like a tank, kinda surprised they cracked. As a side not, they probably can be repaired.

Still have parts

 

[Nomad74]

Still have parts

You know you're replying to a post that was made 9 years ago.

 

[Nate The Great]

You know you're replying to a post that was made 9 years ago.

Not very nice! One could still have faith..

 

[Cleanworks]

Not very nice! One could still have faith..

You never know. Keith might answer him.

 

[todg]

That was Al Nessingers Machines produced here in Vegas...The engine was great and non-EFI...What's it worth? What are you willing to pay for it is the real question? Never owned one, however I was told it was a beast!