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FB19087
Guest
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Vortex vs Trinity
- Thread starter John G
- Start date
Goomer
Member
I do not think that silly, easily manipulated, "consumer advertisement" is going to radically change anyones thinking regarding OP's position as a stand-alone method.
I hope it's intent was not to "enlighten" anyone here.
Even if i did decide to drink the kool-aid, based on a particular previous incident regarding a Trinity, it would probably not be the machine I would be looking into.
Desk Jockey
Member
Lets see some protocols. How many times was that area gone over with OP, using which type of pad. How was HWE approached, best flushing would be with a powerhead. How's, Rotovac, RX, Trex, were any of them used? If not at least a wand with high flow jets? How many HWE passes?
Where in the home were the tests taken at?
Where in the home were the tests taken at?
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FB19087
Guest
You say I need to learn? Teach.
Others need to be enlightened? Enlighten.
Why do we need to go elsewhere to get the info?
Seems like spam to me. Just a link to some Mercola inspired sales copy with a catchy title and a few bump responses......
I'll move it in with the other spam if you can't be bothered to answer questions about the product you are trying to plug..........
Others need to be enlightened? Enlighten.
Why do we need to go elsewhere to get the info?
Seems like spam to me. Just a link to some Mercola inspired sales copy with a catchy title and a few bump responses......
I'll move it in with the other spam if you can't be bothered to answer questions about the product you are trying to plug..........
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Mikey P
Administrator
Exactly.
John you need to tell us HERE about how your Trinity system is going to remove more soil than a HWE system if you expect to win people over.
cause to me it just looks like a mom and pop who bought too much truck...
and or like Forrest, just could never figure out how to properly HWE a carpet.
John you need to tell us HERE about how your Trinity system is going to remove more soil than a HWE system if you expect to win people over.
cause to me it just looks like a mom and pop who bought too much truck...
and or like Forrest, just could never figure out how to properly HWE a carpet.
Desk Jockey
Member
Why force us to visit your "cLuB House" you're not going to club us once we get in there....are you?
Zee
Supportive Member
As a regular user of OP and high flush high heat hwe I can tell you that OP works....BUT there is no freaking way OP will remove more soil than a properly configured hwe system with a properly trained tech doing the work. Absolutely positively false what John G is trying to claim.
As with any other "method debate" or bashing: who has more experience with both method can speak. Those that only push one type can sthu and get educated AND hundreds if not thousands of hours of practice about the method they are bashing, before they make assbrain statements how OP removes more soil or how VS is a better method for extracting soils.
As with any other "method debate" or bashing: who has more experience with both method can speak. Those that only push one type can sthu and get educated AND hundreds if not thousands of hours of practice about the method they are bashing, before they make assbrain statements how OP removes more soil or how VS is a better method for extracting soils.
Shane Deubell
Supportive Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2011
- Messages
- 4,052
You do not need a degree from MIT to figure this one out...
Personally could care less about which "cleans" better anyway, my job is to make money and can make WAY more money with a butler then a fancy floor buffer. {i said fancy
}
Personally could care less about which "cleans" better anyway, my job is to make money and can make WAY more money with a butler then a fancy floor buffer. {i said fancy
}As a regular user of OP and high flush high heat hwe I can tell you that OP works....BUT there is no freaking way OP will remove more soil than a properly configured hwe system with a properly trained tech doing the work. Absolutely positively false what John G is trying to claim.
Well thank you Zee for your opinion, now do you have ANYTHING to back that up?
Plus what OP are you using? Or did you even know it makes a big difference?
As with any other "method debate" or bashing: who has more experience with both method can speak. Those that only push one type can sthu and get educated AND hundreds if not thousands of hours of practice about the method they are bashing, before they make assbrain statements how OP removes more soil or how VS is a better method for extracting soils.
Well then, how many years do you have with OP? How many with HWE? I have had a TM, several portables, rotaries and have OP'd for 40 years.
I have cleaned with more cleaners than you probably have ever talked to.
And again, other than your OPINION, based on a machine you have NOT used, what do you have to back it up?
I will post a video a little later of what we are doing to find out what we are doing, you mind posting one of you showing and PROVING what YOU DO?
Well thank you Zee for your opinion, now do you have ANYTHING to back that up?
Plus what OP are you using? Or did you even know it makes a big difference?
As with any other "method debate" or bashing: who has more experience with both method can speak. Those that only push one type can sthu and get educated AND hundreds if not thousands of hours of practice about the method they are bashing, before they make assbrain statements how OP removes more soil or how VS is a better method for extracting soils.
Well then, how many years do you have with OP? How many with HWE? I have had a TM, several portables, rotaries and have OP'd for 40 years.
I have cleaned with more cleaners than you probably have ever talked to.
And again, other than your OPINION, based on a machine you have NOT used, what do you have to back it up?
I will post a video a little later of what we are doing to find out what we are doing, you mind posting one of you showing and PROVING what YOU DO?
And how would you KNOW that Shane? Lots of flippant opinions, but have you tried the method we are talking about, or the machine?You do not need a degree from MIT to figure this one out...
Personally could care less about which "cleans" better anyway, my job is to make money and can make WAY more money with a butler then a fancy floor buffer. {i said fancy
Desk Jockey
Member
Yea I don't see the point of the ATP testing.
Is carpet ever really clean? If it is, isn't it only clean until put back into use?
We use OP, Encapsulation and HWE.....even some Host (
at times). Use the tool that best fits the job, this "my method is better" is for the birds!
Make your clients happy with what ever method you use and you will prosper, fight pointless methods fights and you will be forever frustrated.
Is carpet ever really clean? If it is, isn't it only clean until put back into use?
We use OP, Encapsulation and HWE.....even some Host (
at times). Use the tool that best fits the job, this "my method is better" is for the birds! Make your clients happy with what ever method you use and you will prosper, fight pointless methods fights and you will be forever frustrated.
Desk Jockey
Member
I thought this was about the OP method, it's about just the one machine? So OP won't rate as high unless it's with the Trinity?
I think it would be in your best interest to pay for Independent testing, even if you are the one paying for the testing it will have more validity that having a cleaner doing the testing. Especially when he owns the machines that rate higher and its more cost effective for him to use OP vs HWE.
Zee
Supportive Member
Common sense is what backs me up...
I have been cleaning with OP for a little more than 5 years. And no not with your unit. I have 14 years of hwe experience..and just because you are older therefore worked longer times doesn't mean you are necessarily better. This isn't rocket science to learn what to do. A guy that cares about this can learn and be very good at this after a couple years..
And what kinda proof do you want? Me cleaning and showing that I know how to clean?
Your videos don't prove anything... I saw one of your videos where you claim that your unit is fixing blooming that another unit supposedly caused...come on..how in the world is your unit grabbing each tiny little pile and spins it back to original shape?
My opinion is a general OP opinion not your unit..I didn't say anything about your unit.
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Ken Snow
RIP
Zee- A straight man doesn't usually talk about another man's unit~ or is it package. 
Zee
Supportive Member
Zee- A straight man doesn't usually talk about another man's unit~ or is it package.
Hahaaha that made me LOL! Good one Ken..
And you are correct I wasn't talking about anyone's "stuff".
Mardie
Member
You say I need to learn? Teach.
Others need to be enlightened? Enlighten.
Why do we need to go elsewhere to get the info?
Seems like spam to me. Just a link to some Mercola inspired sales copy with a catchy title and a few bump responses......
I'll move it in with the other spam if you can't be bothered to answer questions about the product you are trying to plug..........
Well you sure are a real sweetheart. So is this how you ask questions on this board ? First you insult then accuse then threaten. I ll leave it at that seeing as you are a board good ol boy LOL
Mardie
Member
Yea I don't see the point of the ATP testing.
Is carpet ever really clean? If it is, isn't it only clean until put back into use?
We use OP, Encapsulation and HWE.....even some Host (
Make your clients happy with what ever method you use and you will prosper, fight pointless methods fights and you will be forever frustrated.
Richard I believe the reason for ATP testing is to help validate Johns claims. Seeing as that all cc methods can clean carpet when done properly and the client can not tell one from the other by eye sight the only logical next step to see which is really getting the dirt out would be with a microscope.
Desk Jockey
Member
Mardie
Member
As any developer of a new product it would be his intent to promote it in the best way he knows how so he can sell as many machines as possible. And what is wrong with that? more power to him I say. Is that not what every body does that sells stuff? So where is the problem ? From what I understand John has spent a lot of time and put a lot of his own money into the development of the Trinity and now has put it under the microscope (literally) From what I understand the Trinity is in a class of its own and cannot be compared to any other machine on the market. This is what makes the Trinity unique. I think it would be great if all this pans out because if it does their are going to be a lot of cc making some good money . It is a good thing that the industrialisation of the usa did not take the same approach to innovation as many here on MB do because if they did you would still be a hunted man LOL
Mardie gets it, he understands, thank YOU. Its wasn't my choice that the Trinity is NOT like other OP's I have been OP since '73 and love love it, but building this machine brought with it new problems at first and now new benefits and yes it makes it quite different from other OP machines, is that a bad thing? Those the use it don't think so. [video=youtube;eA2HQKwqqqA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA2HQKwqqqA[/video]
Desk Jockey
Member
There is no problem at all. I'm questioning the validity of the testing.
So Mardie if Larry Cobb came up with results that said only his machine go accomplish this high level of cleanliness, no other TM no other method, you wouldn't question it? I would and we own 8-TM's, I do and we own 2-OP machines....but I guess not the right kind.
P.S. Sorry Larry for throwing you in the mix.
F
FB19087
Guest
When will you be adding his veiled sales pitches on your website Mardie?
Desk Jockey
Member
I'm not questioning the machine, I'm questioning the test results.
What kind of drop off is there in ATP counts from a regular OP machine like the Orbot to the Trinity?
Zee
Supportive Member
Ezzackly...he can sell here but not in a backdoors way. He can buy a banner and pay mikey the same as all other manufacturers...
Mardie
Member
There is no problem at all. I'm questioning the validity of the testing.
So Mardie if Larry Cobb came up with results that said only his machine go accomplish this high level of cleanliness, no other TM no other method, you wouldn't question it? I would and we own 8-TM's, I do and we own 2-OP machines....but I guess not the right kind.
P.S. Sorry Larry for throwing you in the mix.
Ya but we all know Larry is fos
JK
