Solvent Protectors

tmdry · Dec 10, 2013

What are the reasons as to why solvent protectors give you a headache, dizzyness, short of breath, and very nauseous?

I don't use solvent protectors (for that main reason) on carpet or uph for that main reason. I have used for clear sealing tile on a grout stick wand (I can't use a sprayer).

I've spoken to 2 of the distributors that I know sold the "best ones", and both couldn't give me an exact answer, other than "that's what it is".

Larry Cobb · Dec 10, 2013

Bill;

You should not have those conditions with a solvent protector.

As with ALL fluorochemical protectors,

you should NOT inhale the fluorochemical.

Insure that you are using a long spray wand @ under 40 PSI,

and keep it just above the surface you are treating.

They do have the BEST performance of any commercial protector on tile & carpet.

Give me a call if you want more info.

Larry

Desk Jockey · Dec 10, 2013

Sounds like your body has a low tolerance for solvents. I'd stay clear of them as much as you can.

Breathing solvents is never good and caution should be taken for your client as well as yourself. Use plenty of ventiation when using solvents and keep clients out of the work area while solvent vapors are present.

ruff · Dec 10, 2013

I agree with Richard.

Also, do you were an appropriate respirator when applying?

dealtimeman · Dec 11, 2013

A fee months ago I ran over to a job we had polished the day before but somehow didn't have any of Larry's solvent sealer. So set up to start sealing and noticed I left my mask or just didn't bring it.

I said what will it hurt I will just do it quick and get out it was a small shower. I tell the guys over and over if we are going to seal to wear a mask/ respirator. So I knew better, but didn't want to waste three hours just to go get a new respirator, and started.

About two hours later my head was pounding and I felt nauseated and overall sick.

Don't apply solvent sealer without pp.

Larry Cobb · Dec 11, 2013

dealtimeman said:
A fee months ago I ran over to a job we had polished the day before but somehow didn't have any of Larry's solvent sealer. So set up to start sealing and noticed I left my mask or just didn't bring it.

I said what will it hurt I will just do it quick and get out it was a small shower. I tell the guys over and over if we are going to seal to wear a mask/ respirator. So I knew better, but didn't want to waste three hours just to go get a new respirator, and started.

About two hours later my head was pounding and I felt nauseated and overall sick.

Don't apply solvent sealer without pp.

Respirators are mandatory in an enclosed shower.

No ventilation at all in those areas.

Larry

FB19087 · Dec 11, 2013

So solvents won't cause those symptoms that seem to be textbook examples of exposure to the most used solvents?

What solvent is used in your solvent protector Larry? Couldn't find the msds on your site......

Why is a solvent used? What type? What are the advantages?

Mikey P · Dec 11, 2013

Pretty sure it's Tino's in the Cobbs juice

FB19087 · Dec 11, 2013

the pizza rolls?

Desk Jockey · Dec 11, 2013

It shouldn't be about mandatory or what a standard of care says. It should be about what is smart and protecting yourself. Our bodies were not meant to breath solvent fumes, its harming you, no doubt about it.

Avoid their use and if there is no alternative product, ventilate the air space.

If you do a lot of work in showers, consider a ventilation fan that exhausts air up and out the exhaust fan ducting. Be safe, you only have one respiratory system and many years from now you can't reverse the damage you do to it now.

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Larry Cobb · Dec 11, 2013

Richard;

Those fans and hoses look like a good ventilation system.

Who makes them ?

Remember, it is not the solvent that is causing the major reaction,

it is breathing of the fluorochemical.

Larry

Desk Jockey · Dec 11, 2013

That's a part of Ken Horvath's Eliminator system, it's the Vapairvent.

http://www.driheatdryingsystems.com/index_files/VapairVentDetailedPictures.htm

No I get those reactions from many solvents, even high levels of OMS, and for sure 111, toluene, benzene.

It's the solvents, not the fluorochemical. :errf:

dealtimeman · Dec 11, 2013

Bottom line is don't use solvents without protection unless you like learning the hard way!!!!

We use solvents because for us they seem to actually work and do something verse water based protectors which I feel is a ripoff to the customer and won't apply unless customer is just determined to use scotch guard or the like or there are children in the area and then we use water based

Desk Jockey · Dec 11, 2013

Solvent or water are just carriers, the fluorochemical should be the same. What's different is what the solvent does for you. It give you more even application and evaporates faster than water. But the increased VOC level is the negative, for you to breath but worse from a liability standpoint from your clients breathing.

Not worth the better coverage and fast drying in my opinion.

Do what you want to your body but cover your ass when it comes to what you're doing to your clients. :shifty:

Out of Character - 0 · Dec 11, 2013

We prefer the solvent, but like Michael we also carry a water base for certain situations

Larry Cobb · Dec 11, 2013

Doc Holliday said:
That's a part of Ken Horvath's Eliminator system, it's the Vapairvent.

http://www.driheatdryingsystems.com/index_files/VapairVentDetailedPictures.htm

No I get those reactions from many solvents, even high levels of OMS, and for sure 111, toluene, benzene.

It's the solvents, not the fluorochemical.

Richard;

OMS has been thoroughly tested by Calif. OSHA when they were checking dry cleaning.

They found the levels of OMS from dry cleaning many pieces of furniture to be below the limits of OSHA.

We do use OMS in our Solvent Protector.

For our UltraSeal, we use a purer and less toxic solvent, with a higher OSHA acceptable exposure limit.

Toluene & Benzene should never be used in an enclosed area without personal protection.

Larry

Desk Jockey · Dec 11, 2013

NO solvent is good to breath, go ask any doctor. Permissible levels are just that, a level before they can scientifically prove its affecting you. None of us have the same tolerance, depending on your exposure over your life time we are all going to be affected differently.

Its not good for you to breath at any level and when they find out years from that those levels were too high, then what? OMS without enough ventilating will make me light headed. What OSHA in California says isn't relevant to how it affects me here in Kansas.

Larry you sell the stuff, we live the stuff.

Caveat emptor

Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), also known as poly-aromatic hydrocarbons or polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons, are potent atmospheric pollutants that consist of fused aromatic rings and do not contain heteroatoms or carry substituents. [2]Naphthalene (White Spirit | Mineral Spirit) is the simplest example of a PAH. PAHs occur in oil, coal, and tar deposits, and are produced as byproducts of fuel burning (whether fossil fuel or biomass). As a pollutant, they are of concern because some compounds have been identified as carcinogenic, mutagenic, and teratogenic(WIKIPEDIA).

Note: Carcinogenic = causing cancer | Mutagenic = damaging sperm and egg | Teratogenic = causing birth defects

Expert Advice on Solvents, Then and Now
Numerous solvents that were classed as 'moderately toxic' in older literature on solvent safety are now regarded as 'toxic'. For instance White Spirit / Mineral Spirits or Acetone have been re-evaluated by experts and are now classed as 'toxic' and as potential carcinogens. Glycol ether, often quoted as being a mere irritant and a necessity is also toxic, not only in concentration but also diluted (e.g. in water-based paints and cleaning products).

OMS has been thoroughly tested by Calif. OSHA when they were checking dry cleaning.

Wouldn't that be Perc not OMS in the drycleaning industry?

J Scott W · Dec 11, 2013

The flouroprotector does the same job regardless of the carrier. Water carried protectors are less expensive, have less health and safety risks and can be applied as evenly as solvents with limited effort.

As solvents become more regulated they must release fewer VOCS but releasing VOC is how a solvent dries. So, more regulation means longer drying times.

With the quality water-based products available, there is seldom a reason to use solvents. Stay safe.

ruff · Dec 11, 2013

Larry, what some of us have learned through the years is listen to our bodies. And when it says: I don't feel good after I got exposed to this chemical, we try to listen. Regardless of what Cal OSHA or anybody else says.

We're just silly that way.

P.S. And those that don't, sooner or later will regret it. Does OSHA say anything about the accumulative effect of repetitious exposure?

Desk Jockey · Dec 11, 2013

Larry Cobb said:
For our UltraSeal, we use a purer and less toxic solvent

No need to worry they use a "less toxic" solvent for some of their products.

LESS toxic? Whatz that?

It only killed 6-out 10 -lab rats instead of 8-10? Ofer you're good to use it.....unless of course you're a lab rat.

Larry Cobb · Dec 11, 2013

Richard;

I love the irony . . .

You tell me solvents can cause damage . . .

and you put up a avatar of Jimi Hendrix . . .

who abused drugs repeatedly,

until it killed him.

This is from a safety bulletin on our solvent:

Solvent is generally recognized to have low acute and chronic toxicity. Vapor or aerosol

concentrations above the exposure limit of 300 parts

per million (ppm) in the air can cause eye and lung
irritation and may cause headaches, dizziness or drowsiness.
(Cal OSHA didn't reach these concentrations in their study)
Prolonged or repeated skin contact in an

occupational setting may result in irritation and in these
situations, the use of chemical resistant gloves is
recommended. This product is not regarded as a mutagen

or carcinogen, and there is low concern for

reproductive, developmental, or nervous system toxic effects.

Another report:
This solvent is mainly classed as an irritant. It has a fairly low acute toxicity by inhalation of the vapor, dermal (touching the skin) and oral routes (ingestion).

The fluorochemical is the component that is more concerning.

Larry

ruff · Dec 11, 2013

That's not Jimmy Hendrix. That's Willy :winky:

And I love the irony of your analogy, Larry. Jimmy used drugs repeatedly and it killed him, we use the solvents etc repeatedly and it will.......?

Larry Cobb · Dec 11, 2013

Doc Holliday said:
Wouldn't that be Perc not OMS in the drycleaning industry?

The study used OMS as the principal solvent.

Mineral Spirits has 15-20% aromatic solvents which ARE more toxic.

Odorless Mineral Spirits has the aromatic (smelly) components removed.

We need an Industrial Hygienist to settle this,

and determine the relative hazards.

Larry

hogjowl · Dec 11, 2013

This is a timely thread. I have a HUGE tile clean and seal set for Friday. So large, in fact, that I planned on spraying Larry's solvent protector instead of using a grout stick. I have asthma from years of breathing chemical vapor, and now that Larry says his is safe, I think I'll go buy a respirator mask.

ruff · Dec 11, 2013

Larry Cobb · Dec 11, 2013

hogjowl said:
This is a timely thread. I have a HUGE tile clean and seal set for Friday. So large, in fact, that I planned on spraying Larry's solvent protector instead of using a grout stick. I have asthma from years of breathing chemical vapor, and now that Larry says his is safe, I think I'll go buy a respirator mask.

Marty;

No need to spray it at all.

Pour an appropriate amount on the floor allowing for mop absorption,

Take an 18" wide microfiber flat mop and distribute a light coat across the entire floor.

"Time effective" coating technique.

The fluorochemical will not reach your lungs from spraying.

Collect the check,

knowing that you applied the most effective protector for your customer.

Let us know how it works.

Larry

Mikey P · Dec 11, 2013

Larry Cobb said:
Marty;

No need to spray it at all.

Pour an appropriate amount on the floor allowing for mop absorption,

Take an 18" wide microfiber flat mop and distribute a light coat across the entire floor.

"Time effective" coating technique.

The fluorochemical will not reach your lungs from spraying.

Collect the check,

knowing that you applied the most effective protector for your customer.

Let us know how it works.

Larry

That's how we do it

Desk Jockey · Dec 11, 2013

Larry Cobb said:
Richard;

I love the irony . . .

You tell me solvents can cause damage . . .

and you put up a avatar of Jimi Hendrix . . .

who abused drugs repeatedly,

until it killed him.

This is from a safety bulletin on our solvent:

Solvent is generally recognized to have low acute and chronic toxicity. Vapor or aerosol

concentrations above the exposure limit of 300 parts

per million (ppm) in the air can cause eye and lung
irritation and may cause headaches, dizziness or drowsiness.
(Cal OSHA didn't reach these concentrations in their study)
Prolonged or repeated skin contact in an

occupational setting may result in irritation and in these
situations, the use of chemical resistant gloves is
recommended. This product is not regarded as a mutagen

or carcinogen, and there is low concern for

reproductive, developmental, or nervous system toxic effects.

Another report:
This solvent is mainly classed as an irritant. It has a fairly low acute toxicity by inhalation of the vapor, dermal (touching the skin) and oral routes (ingestion).

The fluorochemical is the component that is more concerning.

Larry

LOL Well this is true. However I'm not Jimi, I don't do drugs or drink alcohol. The solvents I have loaded in my body were once considered safe also. You see safe is only relative to the time and how it affects people's health after exposure over years and often decades. The Perc clothing

Desk Jockey · Dec 11, 2013

Sorry I'm on my smarty phone and I couldn't get back to the last sentence.

Any way those Perc soaked clothes that I worked with when my father managed a drycleaning plant and the 111 triclor that I practically bathed in for decades spotting grease and oil spots on carpet &upholstery are no longer safe. Now after decades of exposure those solvents that "were" once considered safe are now carcinogens now.

Play it safe, don't breath or let solvents absorb into your skin, just because its safe today doesn't mean it still will tomorrow. Risk your health for fast drying protective coating......foolish if you ask me.

Hope you charge plenty, cause it's likey costing you more than money.

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