Ron Beatty

[Jim Martin]

Jim, The legs were reused on all the blowers. They are a Blueline built custom leg to sit flat on the cradle, no shims. The one blower was replaced in Jan 09. The other one was rebuilt Feb 09. There was no modification to the legs ever.

There are way to many cooks in the kitchen here.....so lets handle this one at a time.....
so that I am understanding this correct.......

this piece that the blower is mounted to.....(the plate that is missing the bolt that holds the body of the blower.) was home grown by Blueline...or did Blueline modify that part that was attached to the blower from the factory........

 

[ronbeatty]

Jim, That leg was manufactured by Blueline in place of the factory leg from Tuthill.

 

[Jim Martin]

so my next 2 questions would be how long did the first blower last with this set up and when the seal was replaced....did anyone look at the seal to see where the shaft was rubbing.....normally when something is not just right and the seal goes out it rubs out the area that the shaft is putting to much pressure on.......almost all the time you will see the seal rubbed out at the very bottom with things that are belt driven....

 

[sam gm]

Jim Do you still run your vortex , if so have u ever had any problems with your unit?

 

[Jim Martin]

I sold mine about 6 months ago.....and I had my fair share of problems.......but never with the blower or how was mounted....and none of the feet on mine were as soiled as the picture that Ron is showing...mine had little wings bolted to each corner of the blower body and then bolted down to the plate.....most my problems were generated with the type of fittings that were used and some were with the construction of different parts....like the lower HX and the fresh tank....

 

[Mikey P]

No blower issues on mine either. Been running steady since December of 04

 

[Jim Martin]

this is the mounting foot on mine....one of these in each corner...and you can see that they did not even use both mounting slots....

 

[Erik]

What brand blower is that? Did u bring the diverter silenoid inside the box, or was it bought like that?

 

[Erik]

No blower issues on mine either. Been running steady since December of 04

How many hours on your unit? Do you have a picture of your vac. relief?

 

[Jim Martin]

What brand blower is that? Did u bring the diverter silenoid inside the box, or was it bought like that?

the blower is a tuthill 6008......... I removed the solenoid from the frame under the truck and re-mounted it inside the box next to the blower to keep it clean and dry.....pretty easy to do....there is more then enough vacuum off of the booster to add the extra line to run down to the diverter ..then just trace the power wire back towards the front of the truck till you have enough to bring it up to the solenoid....and then just reground it into the mounting plate....you will never have another problem with the breathing stone and never have to worry about the unit again......

 

[Erik]

What year was your truck? The blower looks nothing like mine, from what I can see. On my 6008 I put the cylinoid in an electrical box under the truck. Thanks for the pics. I will do that to the 777. Now that both are paid for, Ineed to put some $ in them. May be a good winter project.

 

[Jim Martin]

What year was your truck? The blower looks nothing like mine, from what I can see. On my 6008 I put the cylinoid in an electrical box under the truck. Thanks for the pics. I will do that to the 777. Now that both are paid for, Ineed to put some $ in them. May be a good winter project.

mine was a 2004....a lot of these trucks don't look alike..and even the ones that do...some components are different ...they were having problems with the solenoids getting wet and the breathing stone getting dirty...once the stone plugged up then the diverter would not open back up and exhaust out the tail pipe....so guys were driving around with a stuck diverter and cooking the lower HX..........so there big fix was to put it in a box to try to protect it......I guess it worked OK...really don't know.....IMO..this was one of Vortex's biggest down falls...the machines were not cookie cut...something could happen to one..and you can fix it....same exact thing happened to another one and it was a whole different ball game trying to figure it out.....a mechanics nightmare.......

 

[Hoody]

Jim brings up some great points. The fact that the only R & D done with the vortex project was at the end-user, the consumer - or so that is how it appears to me. This is very evident with the many different models and versions of the "same" unit, and that in itself was one of the biggest downfalls of the entire project. I don't think heat exchange systems will ever completely go away, but more people are realizing the many benefits of propane or kerosene based heat. Its very consistent, and consistency is what is needed for a TM in this business.

I'm not trying to get off topic(sorry Jim) but I see more kerosene/propane 47/56/59 blower units coming out in the near future, even with the rise in fuel costs.

 

[Jim Martin]

so my next 2 questions would be how long did the first blower last with this set up and when the seal was replaced....did anyone look at the seal to see where the shaft was rubbing.....normally when something is not just right and the seal goes out it rubs out the area that the shaft is putting to much pressure on.......almost all the time you will see the seal rubbed out at the very bottom with things that are belt driven....

Ron....it has been 10 days to date that you started your post on the trouble that you are having with your trucks....and from what I am reading you are no closer today to getting them fixed then you were 10 days ago......The other 2 threads have turned into nothing but finger pointing and the he said she said...... and who is responsible for what happen...this is not going to get your trucks back into shape so you can get them back on the asphalt and start making money....so I separated this thread from the others to concentrate only on getting you back up and going....there are a lot of smart people on this board that can figure this out and help you with your problem....IMO this should be the main goal....you have a business to run and a family to feed....and enough time has been wasted already........so why don't we just concentrate on getting you back up and running and then worry about everything else later........

 

[George V]

Han Solo:
"She'll make point five past lightspeed.
She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid.
I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

 

[Mikey P]

Ron....it has been 10 days to date that you started your post on the trouble that you are having with your trucks....and from what I am reading you are no closer today to getting them fixed then you were 10 days ago......The other 2 threads have turned into nothing but finger pointing and the he said she said...... and who is responsible for what happen...this is not going to get your trucks back into shape so you can get them back on the asphalt and start making money....so I separated this thread from the others to concentrate only on getting you back up and going....there are a lot of smart people on this board that can figure this out and help you with your problem....IMO this should be the main goal....you have a business to run and a family to feed....and enough time has been wasted already........so why don't we just concentrate on getting you back up and running and then worry about everything else later........

Bravo.

Nothing we can do for you here but help walk you though the fix Ron, despite what Shawn will tell everyone, I have no business relationship with SS other than they buy banner space from me and hosted MF.

Trying to use this board to leverage them into fixing your machines will not work. I believe they feel they have done all they can and should do. Do I agree? I dont know enough of the story to make that judgment.


Now..


How can we help you?



Judson already has your heat issue fixed,
So IMO it comes down to finding someone who can mount them correctly, right?

 

[ronbeatty]

Mike, I bought a heat exchange machine for the convenience and that is what I expect to have when I am done!!!!!!

 

[Mikey P]

Well Ron, Im affriad your sol with this group then.

You should be taking those trucks to Johns Custom HX and leave Judson out of this.
Why have been wasting his time and money if you have no intention of using propane?

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Here's an idea assuming the blower issue is due to back pressure from the blower hx. I'm doing this to one of my machines, should be done today.

Put a T on the blower exhaust before the hx, run a 2nd exhaust pipe as a relief. Restrict the flow out of the new pipe by using a ball valve so that the majority of the exhaust goes through the HX. Use a pressure gauge to dial it in. You may loose a little heat but you can also loose the amount of back pressure that you don't want.

If you permanently install the pressure gauge then you can know when your blower hx is getting clogged up. On such an expensive setup I'd have a temperature gauge on the blower exhaust to make sure it wasn't getting too hot.

 

[Jim Martin]

so why don't we just take this one problem at at a time...and start with the blowers...because until those get fixed right the HX is not going to matter.......

 

[ronbeatty]

Jim, So right, that is what i said.

 

[BradFenstermaker]

This is my 777 59 blower foot. Excuse the venturi grease, before cleanup pic.

The blower is shimmed to match the pitch of the pto under the truck. I did have to put bearings in the 59 after this pic was taken. 3800hrs on the clock

 

[joe harper]

Does ..Mike.."dealitman"...
Still have some of those 5.9 blower left...?????????

Throw one in..& see how long it takes it to "COOK".... :idea:

They were CHEEEEAAAAAp.. 8)

 

[Jim Martin]

Ok Ron......some where along the line..someone made a few bad choices and gave you some bad advice...and it seems like your problem just snow balled from there....when ever the new legs were made for the blower..who's idea was it not to shim it.....and what exactly did they think that they were going to accomplish by not doing so...the welds alone on the blower stand is a sure sign that it is going to have some type of torque in the metal and it is not going to allow that blower to sit the way it needs to in order for the shaft to run true to the belts....

the only thing that is going to get this back to where it needs to be is....you are going to have to put the angled plate back into the truck and mount the blower back on it...put the pillow block back under the truck the way it was before..as straight and as ridged as possible....line the belts up and take a straight edge and shim the blower right to left and front to back until the belts are as close to being perfect with each pulley as possible....you want to carefully watch how the "V" sits down into the pulley..this will tell you a lot about how it is lining up.....the angled plate is going to put you in line better with the PTO shaft..... no welded or cast part is ever perfect and almost always requires some shimming along with being torqued down properly .....if this is done the right way...then the soft foot issue is never even a concern...there are a great number of theses blowers that are running like this trouble free for a very long time...the angle on the plate is not even close enough to effect this blower....once you are 100 % sure that you have this thing set up as close as it will come....tighten the belt up and give yourself about an 1/2 inch of play.....once it runs for a few jobs the belts will seat them selfs and stretch a little and it will then be closer to about 3/4 inches of play...that is where you need them to be so it does not put stress on the shaft and blow out another seal....

did you pitch out the angled plate or do you need another one.........

 

[Jim Martin]

Notice on Brads blower...all he has is angle iron holding his blower in place it is shimmed level and bolted down solid to the plate....

notice my old one....small little wings that both slots are not even being used...you can't see it in this picture but I have shims on the back side to level the belts.....

and now notice yours....probably one of the most rigid I have ever seen...nice and strong...but it starts to taper up to the right...the foot should of been shimmed instead of brought down to meet the plate....way to much torque on this...that blower is under stress.....and is causing the shaft to ride uneven......you can tell just by the way the bolt holes are not lined up from where you removed the one on the side.......be willing to bet it probably needs a shim or 2 on the other side also....

 

[joe harper]

Jim..

You are defiantly the head chef in the Vortex kitchen.... 8)

It has been my experience that "most" failures in a "belt driven" blower
with occur @ the weakest point in the configuration...!

If this is a alignment issue...? It would be wearing out the BELTS...1st...!

HEAT...is the enemy of any mechanical part...!

There is a picture in Ron's post of the "Thermal Image" of the Blower in EXCESS
of 300 degrees...! Unless it was 95 degrees outside..? He is COOKING the oil in
that Blower....The blower should have a "rubber seal"..that seats the bearings..!
At 300 plus degrees..That seal has got to FAIL...!!!

That would start a domino effect...which would destroy the blower... :idea:

Is this a possibility....?

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Would a blower directed at the blower make a difference?

 

[joe harper]

Would a blower directed at the blower make a difference?

NO...COOKING...from the INSIDE OUT... :!:

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim..

You are defiantly the head chef in the Vortex kitchen.... 8)

It has been my experience that "most" failures in a "belt driven" blower
with occur @ the weakest point in the configuration...!

If this is a alignment issue...? It would be wearing out the BELTS...1st...!

it will put some stress in the belts...but running these "V" grove belt and the way they set in the channel of the pulley.... one would not really even notice it.....I never noticed mine before I shimmed it until I compared it to a new one...all it looked like was it was seating down and wearing into the grove of the pulley..it would really take one to be way out of whack to start chewing the belt...also keep in mind..there are 3 belts pulling this thing.....kinda hard to damage 3..it will stress the shaft first.

HEAT...is the enemy of any mechanical part...!

There is a picture in Ron's post of the "Thermal Image" of the Blower in EXCESS
of 300 degrees...! Unless it was 95 degrees outside..? He is COOKING the oil in
that Blower....The blower should have a "rubber seal"..that seats the bearings..!
At 300 plus degrees..That seal has got to FAIL...!!!

it is possible....the seals are more a neoprene they hold up to heat and stress a lot better then the rubber ones...never the less.....300 degrees is pretty hot..and being incased sure as hell did not help matters...
truth be told..when I seen this thing in Vegas..I told them then that it was not going to work....that thing has got to breath..they were more concerned with the noise level at that time and most were blind on what it would do to the blower....blower oil can handle some heat...what its boiling point is before it can cause some damage..I really don't know......


That would start a domino effect...which would destroy the blower... :idea:

Is this a possibility....?

 

[Jim Martin]

Harper.......I don't think the oil in the blower got hot enough to boil.....I remember when I use to work on the huge 3 phase motors.....most of them had large shafts that were tapered and the race bearing would have to lock down on the thickest part of the shaft about 2 inches away from the motor....90% of the time the bearings would go out because someone would over tighten the belts.....getting the bearing off was easy...long arm bearing puller and a impact wrench and it would slide right up the shaft.....getting them on was the tricky part.....you could slide it on and tap it down...but once it hit the thicker part of the shaft..you could never seat it straight....or you took the chance of hurting the race bearing by pounding on it.....so what we did was take a coleman stove and put some oil in a pot and dropped the bearing in the oil....it took forever but as the oil heated up and got extremely hot...the metal bearing would expand...and you could take it and drop it on the shaft and it would slide all the way down and seat itself with no problems....as it cooled it contracted back and locked on......under that extreme heat..the oil never really boiled....but it did get hot enough to simmer it.........as it was heating up....before the simmering point...oil starts smoking.....and the hotter it gets more and more smoke appears......with that...I really do not think that his blower oil even got to the simmering point....all oil smokes first as it gets to hot......so he would of had smoke billowing out of some where.............