Question about butyls...ShawnF and other Brainiacs..help

[Dolly Llama]

The Grease Lightning thread got me wondering....

we use plenty butyl based cleaners.
Some for CCing, and many for all purpose cleaners (APC)

I'm curious why some make you hack and cough more than others

example..Grease Lighting chokes me to death, but many other butyl based APCs that are as effective don't.

are there different grades of butyls or is it the butyl content?

..L.T.A.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

It could be the other chemicals they use with the butyls in the other products.

My question for you is why do you use something that is a known neurotoxin that causes serious health risk. That stuff can be absorbed through your skin too. If the customer only knew some of the chemicals that companies expose them to, their pets and kids. They would FLIP OUT. All so the carpet or whatever gets cleaner easier and quickier. Seems like a huge dis-service. Not to mention chemicals can be brought home to your own family on your cloths and shoes.
Gotta ask yourself is it really worth the health risk?

Things that make you go Hmmmm.

 

[Blue Monarch]

So, big(fill out your profile), what do you clean with?

 

[B&BGaryC]

The Grease Lightning thread got me wondering....

we use plenty butyl based cleaners.
Some for CCing, and many for all purpose cleaners (APC)

I'm curious why some make you hack and cough more than others

example..Grease Lighting chokes me to death, but many other butyl based APCs that are as effective don't.

are there different grades of butyls or is it the butyl content?

..L.T.A.

If you want to know about the long term effects of butyl, PM MicahR... His father made his own pre-spray in the garage. The guy is a thirty year veteran. He is always complaining about sinus problems... No sign of cancer yet, and he's one tough old dude still.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Dirk I use BioKleen

Bi-O-Kleen Natural Cleaning Products contain absolutely:
• NO Polymers
• NO Metasilicate
• NO Phosphorous
• NO Chlorine
• NO Petrochemical Solvents
• NO Synthetic Detergents
• NO MEA
• NO EDTA
• NO Phenol
• NO SLS
• NO SLES
• NO Butyl
• NO Glycol Ether
• NO Artificial Fragrances, Colors, or Preservatives

The soy cream cleaner is the BOMB. Health first everything else second....

 

[Dolly Llama]

you forgot, no cleaning ability either.
oh yea, no boRine too :roll:

the stuff doesn't clean well.
using conditioned water as a pre-spray is better

to your question to me.
we use many chems with and with out butlys
as to "why"? because they're effective and safe when used "resposibly"

..L.T.A.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Bio-Kleen's pre-spray does not work on traffic lanes, even at high concentrations.

Their fiber glow rinse is way to foamy and re-soils fast. Only Bac-out is decent product.

 

[Jimmy L]

If I'm not mistaken Bio-Kleen has a full line of cleaning products for the home as well.

Think of amway type.

 

[rhyde]

i like bio clean bac-out as an uphostery prespray

 

[Rex Tyus]

It could be the other chemicals they use with the butyls in the other products.

My question for you is why do you use something that is a known neurotoxin that causes serious health risk. That stuff can be absorbed through your skin too. If the customer only knew some of the chemicals that companies expose them to, their pets and kids. They would FLIP OUT. All so the carpet or whatever gets cleaner easier and quickier. Seems like a huge dis-service. Not to mention chemicals can be brought home to your own family on your cloths and shoes.
Gotta ask yourself is it really worth the health risk?

Things that make you go Hmmmm.

I am just curious if anyone has any verifiable statistics as to carpet cleaners aquireing illnesses associated with the "toxic" agents compared to the population at large. One would assume if the chems are really a significant threat, persons in the cleaning industry would have a disproportionate rate of illness. :?

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Rex read the post by gary c friends dad. I doubt there is verifible statistics out there, only stories and experiences. Go read what butyls can do to people and animals. That is why the green movment is growing people are becoming aware of the products they use.

I bet you can line up 100 carpet cleaners and ask them about the products they use and the health risk associated with using them, only a few could tell you. The others are oblvious to them. You may not die from it or get cancer but you & the clients are put at a higher risk if you are exposed to them, simple logic.

Sure you say you can be "safe", but when you spray anything in a house it goes airborne, depositing on furniture, beds, sucked inside duct vents, ect. Not to mention you and anyone in the house breathes it in. These are chemicals that get on your cloths and shoes and you take them back to your family at home.
My Dad before he died, smoked for 60 years and never had any health issue from smoking, but you have people who never smoked dying of lung cancer from second hand smoke. Its like play russian roulette.

I am not trying to be a green freak, but be aware of what you are using in peoples houses, like I said if the customer really knew the potential health risk I doubt they would have you clean their carpets. I read a guy went green and his business went up 75% because of it. Green is here to stay, dont fall behind.

Green products may not be as effective as their counterparts, but with a little effort you can do just as good of a job and be safe.

PS if you already grown a tail quit using that product.

 

[Rex Tyus]

My Dad before he died, smoked for 60 years and never had any health issue from smoking, but you have people who never smoked dying of lung cancer from second hand smoke. Its like play russian roulette.

That is true but with smoking there ARE significant numbers that confirm a much higher risk of smoking vs not smoking. My dad smoked for 50 years and he has SERIOUS respiratory issues. There may be (and I emphasize may) health risk associated with certain products but if it were anywhere near as bad as we are led to believe by the "green" cleaner SALESMEN there would be some statistics to validate the claims. But if it makes you feel better by all means use what you like. You just shouldn' be so judgemental of those that would like some sort of confirmation. I mean the products in question have been in use for decades. It should be a simple fact finding mission for those that feel the need to prove something bad.

 

[Jimmy L]

Delimolene is NO safer.....its still a degreaser and will dry out the cells in your body just like buytl.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Papa, concerning the "potential risks" to custys,
please tell us what they are .
I also like the stats of the risk becoming a real issue in homes with healthy people

please name the source of the study as well

surely the data is available from credible labs.
as it seems many have been convinced.
It's also been my observation, our friends in the Great North West like you, are the biggest zealots.
You must have the data to support your positions???


...L.T.A.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Rex,

Sorry man I didnt think I was being judgemental. I was just chatting. You guys can use whatever, I dont care.

You are right these products have been in use for decades and they are still on the shelf, well so are cigarettes, they just can under heavier scrutiny the past 20 years. This whole green thing that is going on is still in its infancy. You can compare it to our use of oil. We know it bad to use but we use it, Why? Because what else are we going to use. Well greener cars and trucks are 5-10 or so years away from being mass producted to replace the gas engines, same with green cleaning products.

We just need to find something that is equal or better to replace the harsh chemicals currently being used. Look goverment building are requiring green product to be used. BOK is great stuff, other green products are great too.

Look at EGBE ("Butyl") Used in Cleaners, Degreasers and Wax Strippers

Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (EGBE) is an ether derivative of ethylene glycol and butyl alcohol. It has a number of synonyms including: 2-butoxyethanol; n-butoxyethanol; glycol ether EB; and butyl oxitol. It is frequently referred to as "butyl."
THe CDC said in a recommendation, "The results of studies in animals have clearly demonstrated (EGBE) dose-related adverse effects on the central nervous system, the hematopoietic tissues, the blood, the kidneys, and the liver. Limited data from humans also indicate the risk of adverse effects of the central nervous and hematopoietic tissues, respiratory distress, change in motor activity, lungs, the blood and the kidneys." EGBE also exhibited strong teratogenic effects like the inerfering with the development of a fetus and causing birth defects.

Its no secret these type of chemicals are bad, but the chemical companies will still sell it to you because people will buy it. Until they are not able to anymore, chemicals get pulled off the shelf every year, there will be a day when butyl will no longer be used because p[eople realize the health risk and because of the green alternative. Some day not today.

Again I am not judging anyone for using whatever chemicals you use, just be safe out there.

 

[Rex Tyus]

I with ya on the safe. Everything but respirators for me. 8) Goggle, gloves, and booties to protect the shoes.

 

[leesenter]

There are numerous studies out there on this subject.
Most have to do with janitorial company cleaners. Each study shows higher % of asthma with the cleaners as compared to the general population.
Many of these studies are done by universities. This is why in Canada most universities insist on the use of non-toxic cleaning solutions. One of the most comprehensive studies was done by the University of Washington I believe. The study is on my laptop. Email me and I'll look for it at my office tomorrow if you wish.

 

[Rex Tyus]

There are numerous studies out there on this subject.
Most have to do with janitorial company cleaners. Each study shows higher % of asthma with the cleaners as compared to the general population.
Many of these studies are done by universities. This is why in Canada most universities insist on the use of non-toxic cleaning solutions. One of the most comprehensive studies was done by the University of Washington I believe. The study is on my laptop. Email me and I'll look for it at my office tomorrow if you wish.

Numerous studies with a higher frequency of asthma. Not liver failure, kidney failure, prostate cancer, lung cancer, emphysema, skin cancer.... freaking ASTHMA. Are you serious? I know asthma can be serious but holy shit the way it is being sold is as it will kill us in 5 years just by being in the same room. There has to be more evidence of problems to feed this frenzied state so many are in. Not only that but if the study is with janitoral asthma would JUST as likely be related to the abnormal amount of dust they intake :shock:


Freaking asthma. :roll:

 

[leesenter]

Give your head a shake there buddy.
Once you have asthma there is significant colateral damage. You immune system is lower, your oxygen intake is different etc.
The study on the vital organs etc takes 25 years or more to prove. Thats why most studies refer to terms such as "suspected neuro toxin" etc.
But it is hard to "prove".
This is where due diligence comes into play. When you have some chemical or process that has a risk, it makes sense to replace that product or process by substitution, dilution, rationing or the implementation of some controls or PPE.
Or you know you have the right to risk your health too, its your choice.

 

[Rex Tyus]

The study on the vital organs etc takes 25 years or more to prove. Thats why most studies refer to terms such as "suspected neuro toxin" etc.
But it is hard to "prove".
This is where due diligence comes into play. When you have some chemical or process that has a risk, it makes sense to replace that product or process by substitution, dilution, rationing or the implementation of some controls or PPE.
Or you know you have the right to risk your health too, its your choice.

First of all, I agree with a common sense approach to being better safe than sorry. I actually use reasonable PPE.

The effect these substances have on vital organs is really not that hard to get real data on either. Everytime anyone goes to the Doctor,hospital, ER.. one of the questions always asked is occupation. That information has been being compiled for far more than 25 years. All I am saying is that if the "risk" were as bad as the HYPE there would be a dispropotionate number of "cleaners" with serious illness in the questionable areas. It would be more than a LINK it would be a noticeable PATTERN.

NOT TO MENTION How long we will have wait to know if these new and SAFER ALTERNATIVES are actually safer than those they replace.

BTW I can't give my had a shake this morning. It hurts too much. Not from the butyl, from the Budlight.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Larry;

Coughing is from irritation of the throat membranes. It does not define toxicity.

It can be caused by "butyl" or other ingredients.

I think the other raw materials are responsible.

High pH ingredients can also cause the symptoms.

Check the pH of the ones that you are concerned about.

Keep the prespray wand close to the carpet and use a large jet to minimize small particles.

There are risks to every phase of daily life.

The difficulty is to properly assess them and make reasonable choices.

Larry

 

[ron markam]

Have had some respiratory problems recently was prescribed an asthma inhaler.It helped a bunch and now I refuse to spray without a respirator.Maybe its the allergies in the south but I believe it is the exposure to chems over the last 10 to 13 years.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

T rex
There is alot of evidence over the past 20-30 years from the CDC, EPA, and other independant studies showing the harmful effects of certain chemicals like butyl. The side effects I mention above are real and do happen , backed up by years of data from very creditable sources.
Like I said you can smoke for 60 years and have no negative health effects from it and you can smoke for a few years and get lung cancer, its really a roll of the dice. Everyones body reacts different. The proof is true accross the board regarding certain chemicals, that is why they are being banned and no longer being used in commercial and goverment buildings.
I know its a hard thing to wrap your brain around and understand, that we use and are being sold chemicals with serious health risks to you, your customers, pets and the enviroment. The awareness regarding this issue is gaining momentum and is obviously still in its infancy. I dont think this is a frenzy, its called being educated. :wink:

Knowledge is power....

 

[Rex Tyus]

T rex
There is alot of evidence over the past 20-30 years from the CDC, EPA, and other independant studies showing the harmful effects of certain chemicals like butyl. The side effects I mention above are real and do happen , backed up by years of data from very creditable sources.
Like I said you can smoke for 60 years and have no negative health effects from it and you can smoke for a few years and get lung cancer, its really a roll of the dice. Everyones body reacts different. The proof is true accross the board regarding certain chemicals, that is why they are being banned and no longer being used in commercial and goverment buildings.
I know its a hard thing to wrap your brain around and understand, that we use and are being sold chemicals with serious health risks to you, your customers, pets and the enviroment. The awareness regarding this issue is gaining momentum and is obviously still in its infancy. I dont think this is a frenzy, its called being educated. :wink:

Knowledge is power....

Big Pappa,
I am not going to continue to repeat myself to you. You shouldn't to me. Your smoking analogy only proves MY point not yours. There is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rate of illness with smokers than with nonsmokers in respiratory and circulatory problems. I don't know how to say it in a more simplistic manner. The same evidence for cleaners using butyl vs nonbutyl DOES NOT EXIST. If I am wrong, and I may be, a pattern will exist. Someone just needs to find and post the results. I am betting I am not wrong however and no such evidence will be produced. I know that is hard for you to wrap your brain around common sense and ACTUAL results. You ARE caught up in hysteria and are too emotionally driven to see it.

Knowledge IS power. It is gained through exposure to UNBIASED information. You should seek it out.

Just out of curiosity, are you a biokleen distributor? Your profile is a little vague.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Ok T rex. No use beating a dead horse. I was using butyl as an example on effect certain cleaning chemicals have on the body. FACT buytl, not healthy. There are other cleaning chemicals that people are exposed to that are not healthy, butyl being one of many.
You can use whatever you want, I dont care, its just alot of people are unaware of health risk that could be associated with cleaning chemicals. That was all that I was getting at. I doubt there is a report in regards to using butyl and not using it. The point I was making, butyl has proven health risk that has caused health issues with some people, not all obviously. People here have admitted that they know or themself has health issues from using certain cleaning chemicals, short and long term effects. Just because you use butyl doesnt mean your gonna suffer from all the effects I mention before.

I am not caught up in any hysteria, I just look at the facts and research that are presented by the CDC, EPA and other independant researchers. They seem pretty unbias to me, no hidden agenda. I am not getting my info from a green cleaner website, trying to push a product.

No I dont work for biokleen or any other green chemical company, I just believe (along with millions of other people) that certain chemicals are not a good choice to use because of the potential risk. Sure maybe i'm paranoid, but atleast I know and my customers know that we are using much safer products. I dont want to be that cleaner who has health problems from being repeatly exposed to known neurotoxin cleaning chemicals. I would like to live a healthy life. My luck I will be killed from getting hit by a car and not from the cleaning chemicals out there. :shock:

 

[Rex Tyus]

My luck I will be killed from getting hit by a car and not from the cleaning chemicals out there.

Ain't that the truth 8)? That is a reoccuring nite mare of mine.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

T rex you should atleast try the all purpose cleaner, soy cleaner, citrus soy and bac out from biokleen they are amazing. I agree with people that the prespray takes more work to get the nasties clean.