How confident are you in your carpet protector?

#31
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The truth is all top quality carpet protectors work if they are applied properly over freshly cleaned carpet. If you don't carry them, you are depriving your customers of a serious benefit and losing money at the same time. I hated selling protector when I worked for other people and am a little hesitant selling it to my customers because I don't want to be that high pressure guy. At the same time, I know it works and do sell it where I see it will be a benefit to the customer. I really should sell more. Working on it.
 
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While we are at it Scott and Tom.
For upholstery which of your products is better. I can't quite understand from your site.

The water based Maxim Advanced supposedly has more flexibility and will endure more. In that case why would I use the solvent based one?
So which one of them do you recommend, or which one for what circumstances?

I use the water based "maxim advanced" and so far , as far as applying, it worked quite well. But it takes a long time till we get actual stain resistance feedback.
 
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We believe in our protectors . . .

Several of our customers do almost exclusively, protection work on fabrics & carpets.

Some of them have been treating various roll goods for over 20 years.

As J.R. Webster, PhD in the IICRC journal mentioned,
carpet manufacturers depend on fluorochemical protectors,
to prevent premature degradation of carpet fibers.
http://www.iicrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/The_Journal_Cover.pdf

Finally, Dynachem protectors offer a better protection to the customer,

with better value .
 
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#34
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For upholstery, oil repellency and water repellency are the key attributes that you want from a protector. Advanced Protector with Teflon works great with on synthetic upholstery. For natural fibers we offer our solvent- based Maxim Fine Fabric (available in 33 states) or our water based Maxim Advanced for Upholstery with Dye Loc.
 
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To restate Tom's comments on which protector to use on upholstery.

If there is no issue with the fabric being sensitive to water - Advanced with Teflon performs the best against body and hair oils. Maxim Advanced for Upholstery does pretty good.

If water can not be used on the fabric, Maxim Fine Fabric, a solvent based protector is the choice.

If the fabric is sensitive to water, Maxim Advanced for Upholstery with Dye-Loc can allow you to use a water-based protector with less worry about browning or bleeding. Many folks prefer the water-based over the solvent based for safety reasons or because of the odors associated with solvents.
 
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We do not manufacture the fabrics which provide the complications. We also do not pass Low VOC laws which limits the formulas and/or sales of solvent based protectors. I have observed over the years that generally the most expensive fabrics create more of the problems. These fabrics are not always color fast, shrink with water, and prone to texture change from cleaning. They also use silk, cotton chenilles, rayons, etc. Designers sell them for the look and not for practical living. Typically the synthetic blends sold to the masses are much easier to clean and protect. In short, if you want to be an upholstery expert you have to invest in training. We also have to invest in different products to meet your varied needs. Jim Pemberton's class would be one class that I would eagerly attend.
 
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Scott and Tom, thanks. You are making it really difficult to understand for those of us who actually buy your products.

You sell two products for protecting upholstery.
  1. "Maxim Advanced for upholstery with dye lock" (water based): https://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CP01GL
  2. And "Maxim Fine Fabric" (solvent based): https://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CP03GL
I understand that the solvent based one is for fabrics that do not do well with water. Got it. Also that the water based ones will work for people that do not want solvent in their home. Understood.
However:

  1. If applied to water safe fabrics, which provides better protection, or for what kind of stains do they provide better protection?
  2. Given everything the same: Which will provide longer lasting protection. (will not rub off as soon)?
  3. Or anything else that can actually help us make an educated decision about which product to choose.
  4. Am I missing something?

And by the way Scott, the water based one has a pretty strong odor on its own. Not exactly "solventy" but pretty close. So I would not make odor the deciding factor between the two.
 
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#39
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Could you make it more complicated?
I could...but I think your question was asked with a hint of irony Bob...so here is a way to simplify it:

I use Maxim Advanced for Upholstery on everything, natural and synthetic. If I have a very water sensitive fabric (the type that surely needs protection), I'll either do it in plant with multiple light applications with drying in between, or use a solvent based fabric protector, depending on the customer's degree of comfort with solvents.

That keeps it pretty simple.

I had a couple of fabrics embarrass me by bleeding to solvent based protector, so I test all fabrics with whatever I'm going to apply, especially when they cost more than my car.
 
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Thanks Jim.
Any difference in how well they protect, the kind of protection (type of stains) they do better & the durability of protection (how long it resists abrasion, wears off) between the products?
 
#41
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Scott and Tom, thanks. You are making it really difficult to understand for those of us who actually buy your products.

You sell two products for protecting upholstery.
  1. "Maxim Advanced for upholstery with dye lock" (water based): https://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CP01GL
  2. And "Maxim Fine Fabric" (solvent based): https://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CP03GL
I understand that the solvent based one is for fabrics that do not do well with water. Got it. Also that the water based ones will work for people that do not want solvent in their home. Understood.
However:

  1. If applied to water safe fabrics, which provides better protection, or for what kind of stains do they provide better protection?
  2. Given everything the same: Which will provide longer lasting protection. (will not rub off as soon)?
  3. Or anything else that can actually help us make an educated decision about which product to choose.
  4. Am I missing something?
One other variable comes into play. For 18 states and DC including California we only sell the Maxim Advanced for Upholstery as our solvent based formula, Maxim Fine Fabric, is not legal to sell. In terms of performance, long term water and oil repellency tests are almost equal with a slight edge to the solvent based protector. We added the Dye Loc to minimize any color stability differences between the choices. The main difference is that some fabrics do not like water resulting in shrinkage and texture change. A lot of cleaners as a default mechanism, which I understand, protect with a solvent based protector. Solvent based protector of any formula are not legal in California. In the other 17 states and DC, you can sell a solvent based protector if you have 40% low VOC solvent in the formula. We discontinued this formula years ago as cleaners often applied too much resulting in a fabric that could take over a week to dry. For those of you who are committed to the upholstery business, I would start working with a water-based protector as future sales of an appropriate solvent based protector are uncertain, once current supply of C8 version runs dry.

Page 36 Consumers Product Regulations for California “Fabric Protectant” means a product designed or labeled to be applied to fabric substrates to protect the surface from soiling from dirt or other impurities or to reduce absorption of liquid into the fabric’s fibers. Page 64 Consumer Product Regulations for California states that for non-aerosol is allowed only 1% VOC from Dec. 31, 2010. The base of any fluorochemical is a VOC before any carrying agent is added. There are low VOC solvents approved but they would only be able to have 1% fluorochemical where most have at least 10 times that amount.
 
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#42
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Thank you Jim. Yes I was being ironic or something but it's still over complicated for me in Florida. Sorry if you take that personally Tom. I'm not new at this and I work with Interior Designers here all the time. A few are like you have described. Mostly they are trying to satisfy people who can have whatever they want. I'm sure I could learn plenty from Mr Pemberton. So could you.
 
#43
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I have been fortunate to have known Jim Pemberton for years and have learned alot from him. We consult regularly on technical topics that would bore most, but we both are trying to simplify as much as we can in a complex world. Manufacturers are caring less about practicality and cleanability than in the past. I do not know about Jim, but I always enjoy any technical discussion between us. Sometimes you have to leave it complicated when a simple solution can lead cleaners into trouble. In short, the fabric determines the protector that is to be used.
 
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#44
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I've been using Maxim Advanced on carpet and upholstery. I have definitely seen it work first hand. The most dramatic was a commercial setting coming off a parking lot. The carpet would turn black in under a months time. It was quite dramatic and horrible looking in this medical clinic setting. The carpet was a very light tan color. Applying Maxim made a world of difference. I came back a month later and it still looked great. The cleaning took a fraction of the time as well.

It seems like we go through waves, stretches where I sell it a lot...and then days will go by and it's just not selling. Mel does mention it to every customer over the phone and I try to give them good value while in the home.

Practically speaking, who in the world would have the room in a carpet cleaning van to store 6-8 different protectors?

I think the excessive choices sometimes turns us cleaners off.

All while Saiger Sauce flies off the shelf because it does so many things well.
 
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Complexity is in the eye of the beholder. For those of us who are not equipment gurus, a truckmount is amazingly complex, but most have learned to use it everyday. We have 8 protectors for all of the industry's special needs. I would choose two for your truck, which would be Maxim Advanced and Advanced Protector with Teflon (80% of our sales). You may want different ones for your rug plant sales. If you treat new fabric for designers or clean high end upholstery then you will want the best protectors available for upholstery (one choice if you live in the low VOC states). Australia only gets to pick one (Maxim SOS great for wool)as it is the only one we sell that is legal in that country. The complexity is not in the products but it is in some of the fibers or carpets you are asked to protect.
 
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I could...but I think your question was asked with a hint of irony Bob...so here is a way to simplify it:

I use Maxim Advanced for Upholstery on everything, natural and synthetic. If I have a very water sensitive fabric (the type that surely needs protection), I'll either do it in plant with multiple light applications with drying in between, or use a solvent based fabric protector, depending on the customer's degree of comfort with solvents.

That keeps it pretty simple.

I had a couple of fabrics embarrass me by bleeding to solvent based protector, so I test all fabrics with whatever I'm going to apply, especially when they cost more than my car.

When i apply on upholstery i always wear gloves so as i aplly i like to rub in into the fabric as i go. So its not just sitting on the surface of the fabric.
 
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Just because eight are available doesn't mean you need to use eight Bob. I understand your frustration, believe me. I used to work for and then ran a cleaning company back in the age of dinosaurs.

When a Tom Forsythe knows things that can create better products that are targeted for specific fibers, it must be difficult not to create and promote them for what they all do best.

What each cleaner does with those choices is up to them. As I said, when I clean now (friends, family, and rental properties), I use two. If I had a business that didn't clean much in the way of fine fabrics, I could get by on one (Teflon or Scotchgard).

If I were cleaning for a living today, I might burn test carpet yarns and apply products specifically targeted for "the dreaded polys" versus nylon versus wool, but then again, maybe I wouldn't go to that much trouble.

As much as I try, its difficult to really be objective when I don't live a carpet cleaner's daily life day in and day out.
 
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#49
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I have no problem with choices. And if a product will provide my clients with better protection I'm all for it and will buy it.
The issues for me are:
  1. Clarity. Which product will do better and for what fabric, type of stains & circumstances.
  2. Is the difference substantial enough to justify carrying an extra product?
  3. A little of trust. In other words- I'd like to know that it is not just fluff, designed so that we buy one more product, but a real advantage. I do trust Tom and Scott.
And if we can get Tom to separate his paragraphs my job will be complete :winky:. Tom- Period then click Enter.
 
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Thanks, I have been wondering about paragraphs. I have separated the text by a few lines without working. In many other places, you hit enter and it is posted.

It works, the only problem is now I have to remember where this works.

Ofer, I asked my main supplier about Leaping Bunny. He had not heard about it. He learned that it is related to cosmetic products where significant testing of animals has been utilized to confirm products are safe on human skin.
 
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I enjoyed reading this thread. However, I find it odd that 3m scotchgard has not been considered along with the other brands. It is cheaper to buy than teflon. :)

I used to give a separate price for a fluorochemical product and a similar product with dye blockers. It seemed like the product with dye blockers was not as likely to have a spill beed up, and customers seem to like that even if there was less stain protection. I also find it less unerving to promise resistance to soiling than to dye stains.

Btw, does Guardsman still make Carpet Guard? I used to use a lot of this product years ago. It seemed to be a much better product than some of the cheap silicone protectors available, and they claimed both soil and oil resistance with their product. They were even willing to pick up the carpet stain warranty if it voided the manufacturer warranty.
 
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Think I might finally give Larry's product a try. A case and blotter cards and pamphlet. Have been very skeptical that the same product can seal grout and protect fine fabrics...but the product I thought was the best actually attracted dirt in the test image.
 
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I use only DuPont Teflon and Teflon for wool. I really don't want to be spraying solvents, especially in my clients home. I now wear a respirator when spraying Teflon. You dont want that building up in your lungs.
 
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Think I might finally give Larry's product a try. A case and blotter cards and pamphlet. Have been very skeptical that the same product can seal grout and protect fine fabrics...
Bob;

We actually ship drums of Ultraseal to a leather hat company for protection on their hats.

They tested several products before choosing our solvent Ultraseal.
 
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I used completeseal (now microseal) for years and years. Now they want you to buy a dealership and $10,000 worth of protector. NOT HAPPENING, so we occasionally use Cobb's Ultraseal ( it's a decent protector) and steampro solutions. That being said we aren't selling anywhere near that amount of protector we did back in the 90's. Some of that is because we are aren't cleaning anywhere near that amount of upholstery that we did in years past, but I attribute much of it to channel 4 doing a consumer affairs segment on how protector is a rip off. That 10 minutes of local news cost me a lot of money. Much has changed in my 27 years in this business.

On commercial carpet we will use an encap product with protector if we can sell the idea. Very hard in the commercial market. Sell it to mom ? NO WAY but will barter for monster cookies or rice crispy squares. Pastor ? Sure, at twice the normal rate. Being forgiving is in his job description. Plus he brings home over a million a year in salary & benefits.
 
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#58
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Bob, if you working with high end fabrics then a solvent based product makes sense for you. There was a test done a couple of years ago where Larry's solvent based product did not either cause or limit re-soiling, but was neutral. Our solvent based Maxim Fine Fabric causes re-soiling on carpet. This is not an issue for us as we do not recommend application of a solvent on carpet and most are not in the habit of walking on their upholstery. Our solvent based sealers and upholstery protectors use the same base raw material at different solids levels, but one formula can be used on both grout and upholstery.

I would suggest that you use a water-based protector on carpet. You can select from about 30 in the marketplace, but I have two: Maxim Advanced (stain resistance for nylon and wool) or Advanced Protector with Teflon (water repellency and great oil repellency.)
 
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Tom, Many of our high end/ Gaited Community homes here in SW Florida have wool carpets throughout or very large wool rugs throughout. When they call they want all their carpets, upholstery done at the same time and suggesting fabric protection is part of servicing them. I do not want to add water to a job that I have worked so hard to clean and leave as dry as possible.
I like solvent based protectors for that reason. But not protectors that attract or don't release dirt...that makes no sense.
 
#60
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Just for Ofer . I will make this as simple as I can.

Advanced with Teflon - The best protection against oil. This makes it beneficial for oil loving fibers such as olefin, polyester and triexta (Smartstrand). The oil resistance is also great for upholstery as that is the main concern for a lot of upholstery, hair oils, body oils, etc.

Also provides better than average protection against water base soils and dry soils. No protection against acid dyes.

Maxim Advanced - The best protection against acid dyes. Because both nylon and wool are susceptible to acid dyes, this is suggested for nylon and wool carpets. Also offers good protection against oils, very good protection against dry soils and water based spills.

Maxim Advanced for Upholstery - This is for upholstery, not carpet. This does attract soil on some carpet fibers. It is neutral on upholstery fibers, does not attract soil or repel dry soil. Very good against oils and water. Suggest for high end fabrics, natural fibers.

Maxim for wool - Similar to Maxim Advanced but more concentrated for the heavier denser pile found in wool rugs.

Maxim SOS
- the best protection against acid dyes. No protection against dry soils or oils. Suggested for protecting wool and nylon when a lower cost than Maxim Advanced or Maxim for Wool is desired.
 

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