Epoxy grout question

[Zee]

"Star quartz 2" the name of the product.

I went to look at a job the other day. It is a church we have done a lot of work for.

They recently did some remodeling and had tile installed into a fellowship hall kinda room. That was done professionally- no problems.
However, the lobby area is installed professionally and the grouting was done by church volunteers.. :roll:

I assume they didn't wash the grout material off the tiles good enough because it left the tiles hazy looking. Some areas you can actually feel the grout smear on the tile and looks grayish.

The question is: how do I resolve this issue, knowing that even muriatic acid didn't dissolve it?

How do I clean it?

I look at this board from time to time but no help as far as what cleans up the cured material. http://www.contractortalk.com/f73/starq ... 20/index3/

Any ideas?

 

[Zee]

I found "Starquartz Blaze" that was for haze cleaning but it sounds like its for use of right after installation. So I'm not sure if it would work after a complete cure.

They always keep going back to - contact them for more info..
This is from the companies website:Allow cleaned areas to dry, and then inspect tile / stone surface. If a second cleaning is necessary, wait 24 hours and spray a film remover (Aqua Mix® Heavy-Duty Tile and Grout Cleaner, Miracle Tile & Stone Cleaner, or DuPontT StoneTech® Professional KlenzAllT Cleaner) on a white scrubby DoodlebugT cleaning pad, rubbing the tile lightly to remove any remaining urethane haze, then using a damp sponge and clean water, wipe the surface to remove the film remover (do not flood surface with cleaner). Finish by drying the tile surface with a clean towel or cloth. Contact StarQuartz if persistent haze exists.

 

[Bee Busy]

acetone works well

 

[Zee]

acetone works well

Straight up spray it on and wipe it off? Or diluted in someway and pour it on the tile? How do you use it and how do you apply it? How do you finish it off- Run the spinner at 1500psi clear water?

 

[boazcan]

hi pH.

I used floor stripper mixed strong, scrubbed with as strong a pad that won't damage tile - did 17,000 sq ft. It worked. I did use 230 degree heat, that probably helped too. Wouldn't want to use acetone on an entire floor - for many reasons.

 

[Bee Busy]

[quote="Bee Busy":345m72at]acetone works well

Straight up spray it on and wipe it off? Or diluted in someway and pour it on the tile? How do you use it and how do you apply it? How do you finish it off- Run the spinner at 1500psi clear water?[/quote:345m72at]
depends how much is there....dab it on a rag first then wipe hard or spray/lightly pour/ wipe hard...wear a respirator as well...try high PH with scrubber and turbo first though...acetone would be the next choice if that doesn't work...I stripped epoxy colorgrout off grout using it...I got fed up with strippers not working so i went with acetone and it worked much better

 

[Zee]

Thanks guys! I'll give it a shot.

 

[MikeS]

... I did use 230 degree heat, that probably helped too...

Bad idea.

First, Star Quartz is not epoxy, it is a urethane. But since it is organic (as opposed to an inorganic, cement based grout) the rules should be about the same.

Epoxy grouts will start to soften/degrade at about 150?. That doesn't mean melt like candle wax at 151?, but it means once the surface temperature starts getting up there bad things start to happen. You can drive soils into the grout that were laying on the surface. Color problems, mainly hazing and/or blotches on darker colors. The surface of the grout can end up even more prone to collecting dirt and more difficult to clean when you are done.

And while epoxies are generally pretty alkaline resistant, a high pH at a high temperature will start to eat them up.

You may get away with 230? on some jobs if you are lucky. But the first time one goes bad, the epoxy grout people will throw you right under the bus for voiding the warranty. You can color seal the problem away (with the right color seal) or you could end up buying a very pricy re-grout.

Just sayin'.

 

[Mikey P]

First, Star Quartz is not epoxy, it is a urethane. But since it is organic (as opposed to an inorganic, cement based grout) the rules should be about the same.

Epoxy grouts will start to soften/degrade at about 150?. That doesn't mean melt like candle wax at 151?, but it means once the surface temperature starts getting up there bad things start to happen. You can drive soils into the grout that were laying on the surface. Color problems, mainly hazing and/or blotches on darker colors. The surface of the grout can end up even more prone to collecting dirt and more difficult to clean when you are done.

And while epoxies are generally pretty alkaline resistant, a high pH at a high temperature will start to eat them up.

You may get away with 230? on some jobs if you are lucky. But the first time one goes bad, the epoxy grout people will throw you right under the bus for voiding the warranty. You can color seal the problem away (with the right color seal) or you could end up buying a very pricy re-grout.

Great info, thanks Mike!!!!!!

 

[Zee]

... I did use 230 degree heat, that probably helped too...

Bad idea.

First, Star Quartz is not epoxy, it is a urethane. But since it is organic (as opposed to an inorganic, cement based grout) the rules should be about the same.

Epoxy grouts will start to soften/degrade at about 150?. That doesn't mean melt like candle wax at 151?, but it means once the surface temperature starts getting up there bad things start to happen. You can drive soils into the grout that were laying on the surface. Color problems, mainly hazing and/or blotches on darker colors. The surface of the grout can end up even more prone to collecting dirt and more difficult to clean when you are done.

And while epoxies are generally pretty alkaline resistant, a high pH at a high temperature will start to eat them up.

You may get away with 230? on some jobs if you are lucky. But the first time one goes bad, the epoxy grout people will throw you right under the bus for voiding the warranty. You can color seal the problem away (with the right color seal) or you could end up buying a very pricy re-grout.

Just sayin'.

Man..I'm glad we have so many contributing to this board that know their stuff! Thanks Mike.
And you are right it is not an epoxy but urethane. I looked it up more too.

Now based on what you said- what are YOUR recommendations to clean the haze and blotches?

 

[MikeS]

Now based on what you said- what are YOUR recommendations to clean the haze and blotches?

Rule #1 - Don't use your pee-pee to pry her teat out of the wringer. (Sanitized for your protection). There is a featured thread here right now about not being a hero on carpet cleaning mistakes. Same goes here. I know they were church volunteers, but still.

The sensible thing to do is follow the manufacturers recommendations. They may fein surprise and offer some ideas that barely work, but hang with them so you guys are a team if problems arise. The truth is that there rarely is an easy way out of this.

The safest step (at least for the integrity of the polymer grout) is to mechanically remove the haze & blotches. Hopefully it is not natural stone tile and can take some abuse. At least get all the thicker stuff up this way; razor blades & abrasives.

Next comes solvent. Acetone won't dissolve it, but will soften and swell the polymer a little and make it easier to mechanically remove. The good part is that when it evaporates the grout goes back to how it was without any damage. The bad part is, well, it's freakin acetone. You will need lots of ventilation and will have to work small areas at a time before it flashes. Other solvents like xylene will work the same way. Pick your poison.

Finally, an all out chemical assault. Alkaline cleaners or NMP based strippers will actually start to break down the polymer. If you carefully ease into it with short dwell times and maybe even some dilution, you can get the thin film weak enough to remove before doing (much) damage to the grout you wish to leave behind.

I know I sound all pessimistic, but it is doable. Leave your white horse at home and proceed with caution.