enlighten me.....

[daniel@procarpet]

You have to find a balance and Jim you have good balance.

You have mentioned to me your prices and you could go up a little, but you get a lot of repeats and referrals so why mess with a good thing.

I don't think anyone is running off on you though if you went up just a little.

And besides we all know every single job is different and needs to be priced based on what the customers expectations are and what you need to do to achieve them.

And by balance I mean what is your time worth because you don't want to work all the time.

I had a lady wanting me to do a one bedroom apartment for 100 dollars yesterday on the third floor.

Yes I could have made money, but it was not worth missing the golf tournament on tv so that's how I look at things.

 

[joe harper]

Jim..

As to the 1st question....
Sure I have many years ago..."When I was on the truck" ..."My" labor was negotiable.. :idea:
Now with our outside labor cost....NO

We are in such a small market...."WORD GETS AROUND".....Don't want to piss off other clients.


As to your second statement....

I have purchased 5 CC companies over the years. "ALL" were much lower priced than we were ! We scheduled the jobs..."explaining we were the new owners" ... and quoted new
price.

If they were upset...? We gave them a 1 time cleaning @ their former price. "If it was worth retaining the client." Then informed them ...next cleaning would be at the NEW estimated price.!

I would say we retained or converted 85% of those situations.! THEY WERE VERY IMPRESSED
WITH THE CLEANING WE PERFORMED ! Compared to the service they had previously received.

They were able to justify the price next time...considering they had seen the VALUE... :idea:

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim..

As to the 1st question....
Sure I have many years ago..."When I was on the truck" ..."My" labor was negotiable.. :idea:
Now with our outside labor cost....NO

We are in such a small market...."WORD GETS AROUND".....Don't want to piss off other clients.


As to your second statement....

I have purchased 5 CC companies over the years. "ALL" were much lower priced than we were ! We scheduled the jobs..."explaining we were the new owners" ... and quoted new
price.

If they were upset...? We gave them a 1 time cleaning @ their former price. "If it was worth retaining the client." Then informed them ...next cleaning would be at the NEW estimated price.!

I would say we retained or converted 85% of those situations.! THEY WERE VERY IMPRESSED
WITH THE CLEANING WE PERFORMED ! Compared to the service they had previously received.

I can understand that...but when you are talking to a $99 whole house special guy...I really don't think my odds would have been all that good.....

 

[Mikey P]

Mike,

I concur..!

However...your .50 a ft. is relative.. :idea:

If you were cleaning in Fl. @ .30 ....you would RETAIN the same profit..

I would guesstimate the average TM cleaning price here is .20 to .25 sf.

Our base is .40 so we are HIGH END ...pricers... LIKE!

Oh Im sure..

plenty of money to be made if you got two guys pumping em out at 30.


until I run out of folks willing to pay. 50 I'd be a fool to go that low.

 

[ACE]

but that being said if I had to start over I'd live in a smaller home, in a cheaper area, charge less and run three or so vans and be well off the truck by now.

Interesting,
Are you saying that at .50+ a sq you have created an expectation level that is not chimp friendly?

The guru’s and industry organizations seem to promote allot of practices that make it difficult for an owner to get off the truck like making methodology overly complicated, a pricing structure that requires salesmanship and offering the full gambit of specialty services that makes it impossible to quickly train techs.

 

[Mikey P]

Are you saying that at .50+ a sq you have created an expectation level that is not chimp friendly?

not sure how you got that out of what I said..

What I meant was that after deciding to leave Coit I should have moved out of California.

 

[ACE]

how is cali keeping you on the truck?

 

[joe harper]

YOU WANT LIKE THIS ANSWER....but...

Most of these companies were WORSE... I've seen Jimmy naked

Here is where we had a shoe-in...because we were sq.ft. pricers... :idea:

We told the client...we had to measure the area to be cleaned...!
This gave us an oppertunity to SHOW OFF our "big trucks"..lol

They understood it was a free estimate and they had NO obligation to clean...!

Believe it or NOT....Some jobs."park modle mobile homes were MORE than our prices.. LIKE!

 

[Billy]

so in a nut shell.....

high end cleaners are not limited to big ticket jobs....your a fool...or just have no type of business since if you turn down a job that you can MAKE money on even if it is not considered a " high end job "..........we do this to make money... secure our future and provide for our families........not watch it pass us up.....

You are not a fool if you follow your ethics & morals & don't charge whatever you think you can just to make a few dollars instead of being fair & charging what you say you charge. I'm really puzzled by the insinuation if you don't lower your prices just to get a job you have no type of business since. Seems that by your logic everyone that sells a product or service at a higher rate than the average is a failure at business. If this is correct not sure why their are choices in anything, why not just have everything be the same price. It would make things so easy if everyone just paid whatever would make a few dollars of so called profit for all services, houses, cars etc etc etc the list goes on.

high end jobs...can also be found at mid range income...they may not pay as much as the high range income families...but there is still money there to be made...

You are 100% correct on this comment which is why even though we don't compromise our pricing we still have clients of many income levels. In a Nut Shell we don't just have clients that live in mansions.

limiting yourself is stupid....grab the booty while you can...you don't know what tomorrow may bring...

We limit ourselves to what we do because it is a part of our future plans so you are correct again.



I have friends of all income levels in & out of this industry. I can't & never will say my way is the best way but I also wont judge someones business model just on the price they charge or how many jobs they do or don't do.



success isn't easily measured but it does come in many forms.

 

[Jim Martin]

YOU WANT LIKE THIS ANSWER....but...

Most of these companies were WORSE... I've seen Jimmy naked

Here is where we had a shoe-in...because we were sq.ft. pricers... :idea:

We told the client...we had to measure the area to be cleaned...!
This gave us an oppertunity to SHOW OFF our "big trucks"..lol

They understood it was a free estimate and they had NO obligation to clean...!

Believe it or NOT....Some jobs."park modle mobile homes were MORE than our prices.. LIKE!

But I think this falls into the...not everyone's market is the same.....trust me..I know this is all about selling yourself and your service....we market to different type senerios...understanding your market from the bottom end to the top end is where you can determain how your going to make it...and what is best for you...if I thought for one second that I could of made money on this I would have jumped at it.....I am not above taking chances...but I am not going to cut my throat either.....one the same side of the coin....I would never ever out right but a client list...that's just like buying dead air...but...for every client he sends me...I will pay him a percentage of that job....after that...it is my client...and it is up to me to keep them....that way...there is no question that I got my foot in the door....and most times...that's all I need.......

 

[Billy]

Jim..

As to the 1st question....
Sure I have many years ago..."When I was on the truck" ..."My" labor was negotiable.. :idea:
Now with our outside labor cost....NO

We are in such a small market...."WORD GETS AROUND".....Don't want to piss off other clients.


As to your second statement....

I have purchased 5 CC companies over the years. "ALL" were much lower priced than we were ! We scheduled the jobs..."explaining we were the new owners" ... and quoted new
price.

If they were upset...? We gave them a 1 time cleaning @ their former price. "If it was worth retaining the client." Then informed them ...next cleaning would be at the NEW estimated price.!

I would say we retained or converted 85% of those situations.! THEY WERE VERY IMPRESSED
WITH THE CLEANING WE PERFORMED ! Compared to the service they had previously received.

They were able to justify the price next time...considering they had seen the VALUE... :idea:

Well said Joe!

I was taught many years ago you never know who knows who so be fair with your business dealings.

 

[Ken Snow]

Well said in your previous post Billy- we can all be right in how we run our business.

 

[Jim Martin]

so in a nut shell.....

high end cleaners are not limited to big ticket jobs....your a fool...or just have no type of business since if you turn down a job that you can MAKE money on even if it is not considered a " high end job "..........we do this to make money... secure our future and provide for our families........not watch it pass us up.....

You are not a fool if you follow your ethics & morals & don't charge whatever you think you can just to make a few dollars instead of being fair & charging what you say you charge. I'm really puzzled by the insinuation if you don't lower your prices just to get a job you have no type of business since. Seems that by your logic everyone that sells a product or service at a higher rate than the average is a failure at business. If this is correct not sure why their are choices in anything, why not just have everything be the same price. It would make things so easy if everyone just paid whatever would make a few dollars of so called profit for all services, houses, cars etc etc etc the list goes on.


[quote="Jim Martin":365wxib8]
high end jobs...can also be found at mid range income...they may not pay as much as the high range income families...but there is still money there to be made...

You are 100% correct on this comment which is why even though we don't compromise our pricing we still have clients of many income levels. In a Nut Shell we don't just have clients that live in mansions.

limiting yourself is stupid....grab the booty while you can...you don't know what tomorrow may bring...

We limit ourselves to what we do because it is a part of our future plans so you are correct again.



I have friends of all income levels in & out of this industry. I can't & never will say my way is the best way but I also wont judge someones business model just on the price they charge or how many jobs they do or don't do.



success isn't easily measured but it does come in many forms.[/quote:365wxib8]

ethics & morals has noting to do with this...this is about running a company...ethics and morals comes from with in...and no one says...charge what ever you think...because if you don't have a grasp on it then your screwed out of the starting gate...and no one said lower your prices...but if and opportunity comes along and you can make some money off of it...your an idiot not to take it just because the greater then thou attitude stops you from doing it....it just does not make since.........and I never said anyone was a failure...I just don't any difference then someone who pushes protector..telling everyone that does not that they are leaving money on the table...but yet will walk away from extra money because they think it just does not fit there pricing structure...and the money is there...

 

[joe harper]

Well said in your previous post Billy- we can all be right in how we run our business.

I am going to give you the "benefit-of-the-doubt" and assume you are "TonE-dEf"... eat shit!

 

[ACE]

Now you have me really thinking about pricing and market share. My market is about 125,000 people. Pricing ranges from .20 to .50 a sq for residential. If my goal is to have the largest market share and produce the highest total revenue how should I price my services?

I would guess pricing of around .20-.30 a sq is what 75% of the market pays. The .20-.30 market seems like my only option if I want to roll more than one truck. I am going to start offering a couple of service levels to appeal to a wider range of this market. The 18% that are willing to pay .30+ would be the target for an owner op. The 7% that pay less than .20 is a great way to go bankrupt.

 

[floorguy]

sounds like to many chiefs getting paid for little work...on harpers side...

just saying.....

kinda like if i got a shop....id better damn well have them extra customers to pay that $800 a mth rent......month in and month out...

for the most part....over head is what you make it...

 

[Mikey P]

how is cali keeping you on the truck?

viewtopic.php?f=104&t=55709

 

[Billy]

ethics & morals has noting to do with this...this is about running a company...ethics and morals comes from with in...and no one says...charge what ever you think...because if you don't have a grasp on it then your screwed out of the starting gate...and no one said lower your prices...but if and opportunity comes along and you can make some money off of it...your an idiot not to take it just because the greater then thou attitude stops you from doing it....it just does not make since.........and I never said anyone was a failure...I just don't any difference then someone who pushes protector..telling everyone that does not that they are leaving money on the table...but yet will walk away from extra money because they think it just does not fit there pricing structure...and the money is there...

SORRY based on your statement you will never understand what I consider to be Ethics & Morals so we can AGREE on one thing We will never AGREE on most anything to do with how to run a business.

This still doesn't mean I am right & you are wrong it just means we don't agree.

 

[Jim Martin]

ethics & morals has noting to do with this...this is about running a company...ethics and morals comes from with in...and no one says...charge what ever you think...because if you don't have a grasp on it then your screwed out of the starting gate...and no one said lower your prices...but if and opportunity comes along and you can make some money off of it...your an idiot not to take it just because the greater then thou attitude stops you from doing it....it just does not make since.........and I never said anyone was a failure...I just don't any difference then someone who pushes protector..telling everyone that does not that they are leaving money on the table...but yet will walk away from extra money because they think it just does not fit there pricing structure...and the money is there...

SORRY based on your statement you will never understand what I consider to be Ethics & Morals so we can AGREE on one thing We will never AGREE on most anything to do with how to run a business.

This still doesn't mean I am right & you are wrong it just means we don't agree.

Ethics & Morals........ as the title says...enlighten me........

 

[ACE]

how is cali keeping you on the truck?

http://www.mikeysboard.com/forum/viewto ... 04&t=55709

I suspect the main barrier preventing growth is not so much you’re demographic. It’s that your salary requirements are too high for the volume of you’re the company is doing. The issue would be the same in any market. You can’t grow and keep the 50% margin and it would mean less money in the interim. You may be reaching a point where you have enough saving and other sources of income you could now make the jump.

 

[Billy]

Ethics & Morals........ as the title says...enlighten me........

As I already said we will never agree so why waste more time on this subject? You have proven in the past to have issue with me in particular so I really think it isn't productive for either of us to continue this particular debate.

If you can't or don't want to understand this Sorry....

 

[Jim Martin]

Ethics & Morals........ as the title says...enlighten me........

As I already said we will never agree so why waste more time on this subject? You have proven in the past to have issue with me in particular so I really think it isn't productive for either of us to continue this particular debate.

If you can't or don't want to understand this Sorry....

just because I don't agree with you does not mean I have issues....i dont have issues with anyone....just trying to understand your logic...so enlighten me on your ethics and morals....

 

[Jim Martin]

how is cali keeping you on the truck?

http://www.mikeysboard.com/forum/viewto ... 04&t=55709

I suspect the main barrier preventing growth is not so much you’re demographic. It’s that your salary requirements are too high for the volume of you’re the company is doing. The issue would be the same in any market. You can’t grow and keep the 50% margin and it would mean less money in the interim. You may be reaching a point where you have enough saving and other sources of income you could now make the jump.

You may be working yourself out of a job........

 

[Mikey P]

how is cali keeping you on the truck?

viewtopic.php?f=104&t=55709

I suspect the main barrier preventing growth is not so much you’re demographic. It’s that your salary requirements are too high for the volume of you’re the company is doing. The issue would be the same in any market. You can’t grow and keep the 50% margin and it would mean less money in the interim. You may be reaching a point where you have enough saving and other sources of income you could now make the jump.

well sure, I didnt come this far to live on 50k a year in Ca.



I'm hoping to pull a Harper and set Jr up and get the **** out some year..

 

[ruff]

so in a nut shell.....

high end cleaners are not limited to big ticket jobs....your a fool...or just have no type of business since if you turn down a job that you can MAKE money on even if it is not considered a " high end job "..........we do this to make money... secure our future and provide for our families........not watch it pass us up.....

You are not a fool if you follow your ethics & morals & don't charge whatever you think you can just to make a few dollars instead of being fair & charging what you say you charge. I'm really puzzled by the insinuation if you don't lower your prices just to get a job you have no type of business since. Seems that by your logic everyone that sells a product or service at a higher rate than the average is a failure at business.

This really seems like repeating the same over and over again, without defining (agreeing) on what one means by the word "High End." And what is "Watching it pass us up," means.
For me "high End" means that they are willing to pay my non-negotiable prices (that are the same for any or everybody.) And on my end it means that I'll give them the best service (which is not solely cleaning) I can provide, within reason. (No, I will not pre-vacuum for two hours.) It has nothing to do with the size of the job or the total bill.

Jim, using your own logic: You are right- Passing that job where you can make money, is taking money away from your family. The same can be said about reducing your price to grab that extra job, You may be depriving yourself of making a better (what you perceive as fair) money and providing a better living for your family. As we are all selling our time, which is not unlimited and very precious.

As always, it is not an all or nothing game.

If you're not busy, maybe getting it makes sense with some potential pitfalls (like existing clients finding out & being upset about paying a different price. Or what I think Billy means- It is just simply not fair. And if you wish, there are ways around it, depending on your marketing etc.)

Apple seems to be a pretty successful "high end" company- their prices certainly are. And most people seem to be quite happy about them. Last time I checked they don't exactly negotiate their prices to grab every potential client out there. So far, it's been working for them.

If one chooses to sell themselves as a commodity, they'd better have the volume to make the $$.
If they choose to sell themselves as "high end," they'd better provide their clients both real + perceived quality and lots of intangibles to justify the $$.

 

[ruff]

well sure, I didnt come this far to live on 50k a year in Ca.
I'm hoping to pull a Harper and set Jr up and get the ACE out some year..

Going back to Texas?

Or Monte Carlo?

 

[ruff]

well sure, I didnt come this far to live on 50k a year in Ca.
I'm hoping to pull a Harper and set Jr up and get the ACE out some year..

Being Harper, may come with unintended side effects eat yor heart out Werner

Going back to Texas? Or Monte Carlo?

 

[Billy]

This really seems like repeating the same over and over again, without defining (agreeing) on what one means by the word "High End." And what is "Watching it pass us up," means.
For me "high End" means that they are willing to pay my non-negotiable prices (that are the same for any or everybody.) And on my end it means that I'll give them the best service (which is not solely cleaning) I can provide, within reason. (No, I will not pre-vacuum for two hours.) It has nothing to do with the size of the job or the total bill.

Jim, using your own logic: You are right- Passing that job where you can make money, is taking money away from your family. The same can be said about reducing your price to grab that extra job, You may be depriving yourself of making a better (what you perceive as fair) money and providing a better living for your family. As we are all selling our time, which is not unlimited and very precious.

As always, it is not an all or nothing game.

If you're not busy, maybe getting it makes sense with some potential pitfalls (like existing clients finding out & being upset about paying a different price. Or what I think Billy means- It is just simply not fair. And if you wish, there are ways around it, depending on your marketing etc.)

Apple seems to be a pretty successful "high end" company- their prices certainly are. And most people seem to be quite happy about them. Last time I checked they don't exactly negotiate their prices to grab every potential client out there. So far, it's been working for them.

If one chooses to sell themselves as a commodity, they'd better have the volume to make the $$.
If they choose to sell themselves as "high end," they'd better provide their clients both real + perceived quality and lots of intangibles to justify the $$.

WOW I need you to write my post so they are not misunderstood so much, One thing I'm not is a good writer. GREAT Well Said Post!

 

[ruff]

This really seems like repeating the same over and over again, without defining (agreeing) on what one means by the word "High End." And what is "Watching it pass us up," means.
For me "high End" means that they are willing to pay my non-negotiable prices (that are the same for any or everybody.) And on my end it means that I'll give them the best service (which is not solely cleaning) I can provide, within reason. (No, I will not pre-vacuum for two hours.) It has nothing to do with the size of the job or the total bill.

Jim, using your own logic: You are right- Passing that job where you can make money, is taking money away from your family. The same can be said about reducing your price to grab that extra job, You may be depriving yourself of making a better (what you perceive as fair) money and providing a better living for your family. As we are all selling our time, which is not unlimited and very precious.

As always, it is not an all or nothing game.

If you're not busy, maybe getting it makes sense with some potential pitfalls (like existing clients finding out & being upset about paying a different price. Or what I think Billy means- It is just simply not fair. And if you wish, there are ways around it, depending on your marketing etc.)

Apple seems to be a pretty successful "high end" company- their prices certainly are. And most people seem to be quite happy about them. Last time I checked they don't exactly negotiate their prices to grab every potential client out there. So far, it's been working for them.

If one chooses to sell themselves as a commodity, they'd better have the volume to make the $$.
If they choose to sell themselves as "high end," they'd better provide their clients both real + perceived quality and lots of intangibles to justify the $$.

WOW I need you to write my post so they are not misunderstood so much, One thing I'm not is a good writer. GREAT Well Said Post!

Thanks Billy.
Luckily for me you never saw, how convoluted my first versions are. Having English as a second language makes for some original (goofy) sentences.
My original paragraphs in English seem to entertain my wife to no end.

 

[Chris A]

As a board member here (whos much smarter than he lets on) has said numerous times, its not what you MAKE, its what you KEEP. There are ways to make high net profits at the top, bottom, and middle of the price structure, its all in what you decide to do with YOUR business.