Dear Mr Bruders..

[Mikey P]

What size blower is this on your 327?

and will we be able to test one @ Vegas?

 

[Bill Bruders]

its a Gardner Denver (Sutorbuilt) 406 trilobe plumbed 2.5 all the way. Yes we will have it plus a 3rd model in the line with more performance,

 

[Hoody]

Hey Bill,

I was looking at the 327 at a local supplier. I had noticed that the belt from the engine to the cat pump wasn't aligned straight. I wasn't sure if the alignment was meant to be that way per the design of the machine. Just wanted to bring it to your attention.

Thanks

EDIT: Thanks for your PM Bill. All is good.

 

[hogjowl]

It would be even better is the answer wasn't a secret.

Did he used to work for Cimex Ricky?

 

[Bill Bruders]

I asked hm what distributor he saw the machine at in the PM because we like to discuss this type of situation with them first to get all the details. Its just the way we like to do business out of respect for our distributor partners.
But since you asked I told him that what he saw was not something to be concerned about because the pump only uses about 2.2 horsepower at maximum PSI so belt tension and precision alignment isn't a requirement due to the lack of torsional pressure being applied. That being said we have added a indexing point to the the fram and pump mount to make adjusting this a simple procedure should someone need to do so.

 

[John Olson]

It isn't out of alignment (at least not anymore) Stephen sometimes you need to ask the right person before posting something and besides you have been in the store and know it was already addressed.

And if anyone wants to know they drove up from AZ that same day to check it out. They have addressed the issue with the builders on the assymbly line and am confident they won't have another leave the plant that way.

Oh and Bill it is ok to kick Hoody in the (_*_) when you see him i'm going to when i get home. :mrgreen:

P.S. Hoody be sure and Clean Charlie's Litter box before we get home :wink:

 

[Bill Bruders]

Guys its all good. I appreciate the opportunity to answer peoples questions and concerns. No matter how hard you try to build the very best products little things just happen. I'm sure every manufacturer is commited to their customers but I'd put the people in my company up against any of them for their passion to make things right. We can't address issues we don't know about so keep it coming we will take it all in and do the best we can.

 

[Chris A]

Guys its all good. I appreciate the opportunity to answer peoples questions and concerns. No matter how hard you try to build the very best products little things just happen. I'm sure every manufacturer is commited to their customers but I'd put the people in my company up against any of them for their passion to make things right. We can't address issues we don't know about so keep it coming we will take it all in and do the best we can.

Bill I think if you guys truly stick to that attitude and take the feedback on your products from the boards, the Legend line will do really well. Now start working on a van-powered PTO...

 

[bob vawter]

Bill...i briefly thought about going wit a tri-lobe blower recently...but after thinking it over for a while decided that an EXTRA lobe taking up space inside the blower would NOT be conducive to more air volume....
Was i wrong....convince me?

 

[Bill Bruders]

Bob
There are several differences between Bilobe and trilobe blowers although they vary by manufacturer. So I will focus on the Gardner Denver (Sutorbilt) brand
1. From a vacuum performance persepective trilobes go approximatlely 2 inches deeper into vacuum than their bilobe counterparts at the same HP and torque levels. So they are more efficient.
2. A trilobe blower creates less vibration which reduces stress on the truckmount frame and other components
3. The reduction in vibration reduces noise
4. The shaft size of the main drives are larger and handle torsional shock between the motor and blower far better.
5. The oil lubrication systems on a trilobe are cleaner than the bilobe grease type and provode better heat distribution as well as overall lubrication
6. Finally trilobe blowers use ring seals on the lubrication system rather than o-rings

Of course these differences come with a higher cost but all in all we believe they are worth it. When Mike Roden was at Prochem he worked on the engineering team along with engineers from blower manufactures that developed the trilobe design for the cleaning industry just as an FYI.

 

[Hoody]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

It isn't out of alignment (at least not anymore) Stephen sometimes you need to ask the right person before posting something and besides you have been in the store and know it was already addressed.

And if anyone wants to know they drove up from AZ that same day to check it out. They have addressed the issue with the builders on the assymbly line and am confident they won't have another leave the plant that way.

Oh and Bill it is ok to kick Hoody in the (_*_) when you see him i'm going to when i get home. :mrgreen:

P.S. Hoody be sure and Clean Charlie's Litter box before we get home :wink:

Oh and I bought steak for when you guys come home. Looks like Charlie and I are eatting GOOD tonight!!! :mrgreen:

 

[bob vawter]

Bob
There are several differences between Bilobe and trilobe blowers although they vary by manufacturer. So I will focus on the Gardner Denver (Sutorbilt) brand
1. From a vacuum performance persepective trilobes go approximatlely 2 inches deeper into vacuum than their bilobe counterparts at the same HP and torque levels. So they are more efficient.
2. A trilobe blower creates less vibration which reduces stress on the truckmount frame and other components
3. The reduction in vibration reduces noise
4. The shaft size of the main drives are larger and handle torsional shock between the motor and blower far better.
5. The oil lubrication systems on a trilobe are cleaner than the bilobe grease type and provode better heat distribution as well as overall lubrication
6. Finally trilobe blowers use ring seals on the lubrication system rather than o-rings

Of course these differences come with a higher cost but all in all we believe they are worth it. When Mike Roden was at Prochem he worked on the engineering team along with engineers from blower manufactures that developed the trilobe design for the cleaning industry just as an FYI.

1. efficient.
2. vibration
3. noise

Yes i'm aware of those qualities.......but the VOLUME....the CFMs.....
i'm still un-convinced!

 

[Bill Bruders]

Ok Bob lets talk CFM's and Volume of air definately important stuff

One of our Industries dirty little secrets is the use of component manufacturers engineering specs as perfomance specs for performance data. The restoration segment has been real bad at this. 4 years ago I called on industry leaders to mandate independant testing of airmovers as an example an provide real CFM data. Unfortunately they choose not to take a stand. I'm saying this because many a manufacturer of a snail shell airmover will claim 2000 to 3000 CFM, the truth is not even close. The best you can get is about 1550 and that is using a 1HP motor most units produce less than 1000 CFM. Velocity is about 35 MPH Axial airmovers are better at CFM but many times lack Velocity which what really dry's. For people who think the airpath is just a "barn fan" I'm sorry but I can prove the superior performance of the product anyday.
Ok so how does all this play into Bilobe and Trilobe blowers? Well system design is the biggest component of real CFM's and velocity so each TM manufacturers design is big part of this discussion but I don't want to start a he says she says war on this issue so lets talke generically.
Just looking at the enineering CFM's of a blower without calculating the pressure curve to determine how the additional load of water vacuum hose etc. is going to impact it is risky. Rather than get into a this brand that brand discussion lets say you have a bilobe with a free air no load 450 CFM rating and a trilobe with the same free air specs. The added power of the Trilobe in terms of the additional 2 inches of vacuum, the improved performance from the lack of vibration which takes horsepower to over come, the improved lubrication which reduces the units temperature which keeps internal tolerances tighter will result in better extraxtion performance.

Sorry if this is more techy than you wanted but the answer really is a multi facited one

 

[Bob Foster]

Technical is good. I appreciate the info. I also think your point about noise is important. CFM/RPM curves are a bit different.

 

[bob vawter]

Ok Bob lets talk CFM's and Volume of air definately important stuff

One of our Industries dirty little secrets is the use of component manufacturers engineering specs as perfomance specs for performance data. The restoration segment has been real bad at this. 4 years ago I called on industry leaders to mandate independant testing of airmovers as an example an provide real CFM data. Unfortunately they choose not to take a stand. I'm saying this because many a manufacturer of a snail shell airmover will claim 2000 to 3000 CFM, the truth is not even close. The best you can get is about 1550 and that is using a 1HP motor most units produce less than 1000 CFM. Velocity is about 35 MPH Axial airmovers are better at CFM but many times lack Velocity which what really dry's. For people who think the airpath is just a "barn fan" I'm sorry but I can prove the superior performance of the product anyday.
Ok so how does all this play into Bilobe and Trilobe blowers? Well system design is the biggest component of real CFM's and velocity so each TM manufacturers design is big part of this discussion but I don't want to start a he says she says war on this issue so lets talke generically.
Just looking at the enineering CFM's of a blower without calculating the pressure curve to determine how the additional load of water vacuum hose etc. is going to impact it is risky. Rather than get into a this brand that brand discussion lets say you have a bilobe with a free air no load 450 CFM rating and a trilobe with the same free air specs. The added power of the Trilobe in terms of the additional 2 inches of vacuum, the improved performance from the lack of vibration which takes horsepower to over come, the improved lubrication which reduces the units temperature which keeps internal tolerances tighter will result in better extraxtion performance.

Sorry if this is more techy than you wanted but the answer really is a multi facited one

Sorry Bill but i WAS hoping for a little MORE techy.....lets talk about the volume of the extra lobe witin the volume of the case....and find out HOW the volume of air expelled can be greater at the same RPM....what am i missing here?

 

[Greenie]

Jezus Bawb.....It's a ssimple as three little bites of air, or two Big bites, it's nominal. Airflow has never been the issue, most blower are capable of far more airflow than you will ever get through a 2" wand....let alone the industry standard 1.5" wand.

Noise attenuation and vibration are the big deal, not cfm.
That and being able to run at a "higher" vacuum point, 16"hg beats 14"hg.

Can we get on to other things like telling Mike what BRAND of clutch comes stock on the Butler, and where he can get a suitable replacement on a Sat. morning?

 

[Bill Bruders]

Sorry Bill but i WAS hoping for a little MORE techy.....lets talk about the volume of the extra lobe witin the volume of the case....and find out HOW the volume of air expelled can be greater at the same RPM....what am i missing here?

Bob I know your a smart guy so I'm beginning to think you just want to test me to see when I'll break but heck heres another shot at addressing your statement above although Greenie hit it on the head already. The air volume of the three lobes individually is less, yet the combined volume is greater per revolution of the blower also the tighter tolerences creates less bipass air in the blower producing better overall performance. Oh and by the way less torque/HP thus fuel required = better overall choice but not without a up front cost.

 

[bob vawter]

Jezus Bawb.....It's a ssimple as three little bites of air, or two Big bites, it's nominal. Airflow has never been the issue, most blower are capable of far more airflow than you will ever get through a 2" wand....let alone the industry standard 1.5" wand.

Noise attenuation and vibration are the big deal, not cfm.
That and being able to run at a "higher" vacuum point, 16"hg beats 14"hg.

Can we get on to other things like telling Mike what BRAND of clutch comes stock on the Butler, and where he can get a suitable replacement on a Sat. morning?

we'ze already GOT that covered Jeffery..i jus hung up the phone wit Mike!

 

[bob vawter]

aside from the
1. efficient.
2. vibration
3. noise
Does the "three little gulps"
add up to the "two big gulps"
seein' how's the blower case is FILLED wit lobes...........