Accumulator question

[GeneMiller]

I have the Giant Stainless model 22050a. I didn't realize that you had to check them every six months and charge them. I used a pulsation hose on my last machine so no maintenance.
A thread here made me test mine and water came when I attached my gauge. I need the same one because of space restrictions or a smaller in diamater one. You can get them online for $70 but they come charged to 800 psi. I can easily let out the nitrogen with my gauge from 300psi very accurately but the 800psi will definitely blow the gauge. Tire places don't have the pressure to fill it with nitrogen to that pressure. I called the local place that charges fire extinguishers and he said he didn't know anything about them and wouldn't do it? What is the solution?

Gene

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

If your question is who to use to test and fill, go to a motor cycle shop that nitrogen pressurizes gas shock accumulators for dirt bikes. If a basic shop won't do, just about any dealer will have the capability. When we have a customer in need to recharge a unit, which is rare these days (most TM manufacturers use the Cat sealed ones now), we have them go down to the Honda MC dealer down the street.

 

[GeneMiller]

I didn't know they did that . I would replace it with a sealed one if it would fit in the area. It hangs from the frame and only has about 1/8" clearance with the pump. I'll check the specs online. Thanks.

Gene

 

[joe harper]

Gene,

You can also get refilled......at any place that sells PAINT BALL guns......

Chances are the BLADDER is bad....Don't bother to re-build...just buy NEW.....

 

[GeneMiller]

Thanks Joe. I was going to rebuild but I found it for $70. I can drain it and let them refill to 250. It will be easier.

Gene

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Gene,

You can also get refilled......at any place that sells PAINT BALL guns......

Really? I thought they used CO2, not nitrogen. You don't want to be using just any pressurized gas on a device designed for N2.

 

[GeneMiller]

Good point Shawn, I'll be sure it's nitrogen.

Gene

 

[KevinD]

What's the actual purpose of a accumulator?
I have had many truckmounts with Cat, Hypro, Teel and General pumps and none have had a accumulator.

 

[Greenie]

Pulsation Dampner?

 

[Jim Martin]

Pulsation Dampner?

that's what I was thinking they were talking about

you can get the nitrogen charged sealed type
3000 psi at windtrax for $135 and be done with it.
The ones you charge up (like Harper said ) usually blow the bladder
the sealed ones normally hold up better and last longer.

you can call them and give them the specs off of yours and they can match it up
and if you like the rechargeable ones they carry those also
1-800-443-0676

 

[Shane T]

Are they really necessary with the long flexible solution line we use in this industry. I can see it when they are used in a hard line plumbing situation but it seems our solution lines would be enough to absorb harmful vibration or shock. My PowerClean unit doesn't have one nor do I think any other PC units.

 

[joe harper]

Kevin,

Accumulators or Pulse dampners.....Are basically just "SHOCK ABSORBERS" for the water pressure. Athough..You don't have to have one...It really relieves alot of STRESS on
all the components that are water pressure related...

You don't have to have "SHOCKS"on your Van.....But can you imagine riding around
with-out them.!!! Not to mention the "DAMAGE" they prevent to your suspension...!!

 

[GeneMiller]

I ordered the exact same one except that it has 800 psi already in it. Can I use it like that or should I drop it to the 250.

Gene

 

[Greenie]

You keep mentioning 250 psi, might i ask Gene, why?

It's just a pressurized bladder to take the shock out of the system, 800 psi is very handy when you might be cleaning Tile and need a "stiffer" shock absorber.

 

[GeneMiller]

It says charged to 250 on the one already on the truck. they are the engineers so I figured they must of passed at least one test.

Gene

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Most triplex plunger/piston pumps produce very little pulsation unlike duplex pumps and do not need a pulse hose or accumulator.

However if you have a pulse style chemical pump attached then you may want a pulsation dampening device.

 

[GeneMiller]

Even without it I don't notice any real pulsations. It's not like my old hypro, you could tell instantly. what about the charge will 800psi work or should i use what it came with which was one charged to 250psi

Gene

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

The pressure of the "precharge", as it is called, varies with the particular design of the accumulator. Many of Cat's accumulators recommend an optimum recharge of 50% of system pressure. However, some of their accumulators come sealed and precharged at 450 psi and are stated to work at system pressure ranging from 100-3000 psi.

I would say the 50% of system pressure rule is most common. That is probably why your old one was set at 250 psi.

If your system uses a pulse-type chem pump, you really ought to think about a shut off valve for the chem pump when using at elevated pressures. When shut off, the accumulator becomes unnecessary, as pulsation should drop well below any level of concern. So even then, a 250 psi precharge is completely appropriate.

 

[Jim Martin]

If your system uses a pulse-type chem pump, you really ought to think about a shut off valve for the chem pump when using at elevated pressures.

so this brings me back to my question a year ago that got no real answer...(one of the many)

If we need/have to shut off the chem pump when doing high pressure cleaning ....like tile...then why are we selling/pushing chemicals for tile rinse.........????....Is there another way to use them...........??

correct me if I am wrong but you need to shut off the chem pump at about 700 PSI so it does not get damaged....but...our tile spinners are rated no less then 800 PSI...................

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Even without it I don't notice any real pulsations. It's not like my old hypro, you could tell instantly. what about the charge will 800psi work or should i use what it came with which was one charged to 250psi

Gene

The real value of the accumulator is to attenuate spikes (you might not even notice on the gauge or feel), such that these spikes don't interfere with downstream injection of the chemical (in a pulse-pump type system). With the accumulator you will see a little better injection rates at any particular opening on the throttling valve. To a lesser extent the accumulator lessens wear and tear on your pressure gauge movement, and your wand valve. But no, you aren't likely to notice a great influence on felt pulsation if your pump and bypass are working up to snuff. However, as the pump valves and seals age, the accumulator will lessen some inevitable pulsation that creeps into the system.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

If we need/have to shut off the chem pump when doing high pressure cleaning ....like tile...then why are we selling/pushing chemicals for tile rinse.........????....Is there another way to use them...........??

First you have to define the word "need", in this context. The purpose to shutting off the chem pump is to preserve the integrity of the chem pump diaphragm, which get pretty beat up in short order, when approaching 1000 psi. Some people just resign themselves to this shortened lifespan and chalk it up to the cost of using chemical rinses at those pressures. While others shut off the chem pump.

However, a couple of years ago Cat and General introduced a newer high pressure pulse pump for chemical injection, which Blueline/Vortex quickly adopted for use on Vortex units. I have not heard a whole lot of feedback on these pump units though. But the point is that now you can use a pulse chem pump (or should I say "supposed to be able to use pulse chem pump") for hard surface cleaning without much worry of diaphragm problems.

 

[GeneMiller]

Jim,

I use my chem pump at 1100 psi when i rinse tile. it has 7200 hrs and counting and hasn't hurt it. i use fibre plus as a rinse not because it's needed but because it reduces the surface tension of the water and it allows the water to spread more evenly instead of little puddles. i have tried it both ways and i just like that better

Gene