Living The Dream
Member
Good to know, thank you. I have a house to do today with lots of pet stains.
Saiger Sauce reviews
- Thread starter realclean
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Living The Dream
Member
Would you recommend extracting with end zone or flex ice?
Mikey P
Administrator
Living The Dream
Member
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Living The Dream
Member
After
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hogjowl
Idiot™
After
Before
Mark Saiger
Mr Happy!
Thanks everyone and thanks for helping answer those questions. Really appreciate it.
Today was one of those days with no cell phone most of the day and couldn't check in until now
You are all awesome
Today was one of those days with no cell phone most of the day and couldn't check in until now
You are all awesome
Old Coastie
Supportive Member
You misspelled "All yall"
Mark Saiger
Mr Happy!
Mikey P
Administrator
hogjowl
Idiot™
You like me. YOU REALLY LIKE ME!
Old Coastie
Supportive Member
Nope. I think he used 'whoopie' instead of trying to spell a fart noise.
Can't blame him, really.
Can't blame him, really.
Chris Howell
Member
What's the pH of the product?
11.3 on most tests. So I've been told.
Chris Howell
Member
Glad to hear that it works well. If it's not rinsed from the carpet and neutralized it's going to wreak havoc, however, as is true with any high pH product.
As an example, look at the entryway of this bank carpet that we did a ColorClean on (a process that cleans and restores the carpet in one step). Color has been bleached out from use of high pH traffic lane cleaners that weren't rinsed out and neutralized. We get heaps of business from these types of products.
Not knocking the Sauce here. I'm sure it performs well. People's comments are a testimony to this. I just hope people realize the need to rinse it out and neutralize it after its use.
Thanks for the info.
Like most here, I never knew it was important to try to rinse out as much prespray as possible until you said something.
Like most here, I never knew it was important to try to rinse out as much prespray as possible until you said something.
There are cleaners that don't use rinses?
Bob Pruitt
Member
Oh... you're suppose to rinse it? Maybe you post would have been better tacked to one of your many threads.
Mikey P
Administrator
There are forums and Pages full of them...
Mikey P
Administrator
Which brings up an interesting subject
How long has Mark been using the one part powder?
How many repeat jobs since than ?
Any signs of unmatched natural resoiling?
Very doubtful as he always uses a rinse agent...
Back in the day when Judson02 was the SOTD my Vortex didn't have a chemical rinse system, just soft water..
All that liquid DeLimolnene left a hell of an...impression...
How long has Mark been using the one part powder?
How many repeat jobs since than ?
Any signs of unmatched natural resoiling?
Very doubtful as he always uses a rinse agent...
Back in the day when Judson02 was the SOTD my Vortex didn't have a chemical rinse system, just soft water..
All that liquid DeLimolnene left a hell of an...impression...
hogjowl
Idiot™
Oh Lord. I see we're going to ICS this to death now?
Jim Pemberton
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I am glad Chris posed this question, and shared his experience. This is bigger than just Mark's product, this applies to our industry's current trend toward very high pH prespray products.
When I could tolerate being a carpet inspector, I saw a lot of what cleaning jobs looked like "after the fact", and the amount of color loss and resoil issues left by people who I thought to be "good" cleaners stunned me.
What cleaners use as a prespray, what they rinse with, and their understanding of what you can get away using with nylon versus wool versus "the polys" is sometimes not well thought out.
Chris, could you give us some more detail on jobs like this one. Were they done by "in house staff", outside "professionals", and do you know for sure what was used as a prespray and "rinse/extraction agent" on most or any of them specifically?
When I could tolerate being a carpet inspector, I saw a lot of what cleaning jobs looked like "after the fact", and the amount of color loss and resoil issues left by people who I thought to be "good" cleaners stunned me.
What cleaners use as a prespray, what they rinse with, and their understanding of what you can get away using with nylon versus wool versus "the polys" is sometimes not well thought out.
Chris, could you give us some more detail on jobs like this one. Were they done by "in house staff", outside "professionals", and do you know for sure what was used as a prespray and "rinse/extraction agent" on most or any of them specifically?
Jim Pemberton
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I hope so!
Mikey P
Administrator
Jim whatb would you use to rinse SS?
No Butyl
No orange juice
No peroxide
PH 11.3
No Butyl
No orange juice
No peroxide
PH 11.3
Bob Pruitt
Member
Not rinsing pre-spray... I was afraid we were turning this thread into an encapsulation cleaning thread. Sorry Chris...my bad.
Jim Pemberton
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Best answer: "Use an acid rinse agent formulated by the same company that makes the product" (in this case Saiger Sauce). Since I don't understand the product like the manufacturer does, I can't say what to use in a "generic sense" and be certain that I'm right.
Now allow me to rant a bit: One of things we do in our industry is mix some degree of "IICRC Class Chemistry Teaching" (mild choking noise) and our interpretation of SDS and label information. What happens when you do this is you take incomplete information (in due respect from my friends who train for the IICRC, their chemistry section can't possibly teach chemistry completely in a few hours, and some of the information is not well understood) from the class with incomplete information on a label/SDS which does not help you understand the formula and how it works, and you can end up making bad decisions.
Here is what I recommend that you do, and I think most manufacturers, distributors, and even trainers would agree:
When you find a product you like, use the same brand for all associated products you will use with it; especially extraction rinse agents. You'll be happier with the results and have a bit more help from the manufacturer if something goes wrong.
Short answer: An acid rinse agent designed for use in a hot water extractor.
Cleanworks
Moderator
You might want to get a ph indicator pen, about $100 for a good one. Test your mixed solution. Unless it's well buffered, it may be lower than you think it is. I disagree about using acid rinses for one reason. When you're cleaning carpets, you often find high traffic or other areas that need a little more work. You may have presprayed them and agitated them but when rinsing with the wand, you find you need to go over those areas a little bit more. Most acid rinses don't have a lot of cleaning power. I prefer to use an extraction detergent (like Jim says, made by the same manufacturer as the prespray) as it has more cleaning power at the wand. I have tested the wet carpets after cleaning and have never had a very high ph reading. Usually around 8-8.5 is the highest I could find. Carpets fade from all kinds of reasons, not just from leaving detergent residue on them.
Mikey P
Administrator
Flex ICE has good enough cleaning ability for me/us
I believe Mark rinses on the Alkaline side.
I believe Mark rinses on the Alkaline side.
So this brings up a question. I was having this conversation this morning with a fellow local cleaner (Ivan) while stuffing donuts down my neck. He asked me if I was still using SS1 and thought Many carpet warranties are void if cleaned with a high ph. It will also strip off the stain protection. The carpets I clean with high ph chems are usually far beyond any warranty protections.
What are your thoughts?
What are your thoughts?
Jim Pemberton
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OK, let's go a bit deeper into this....I am truly sorry about this Marty...
Nylon and wool are pH sensitive, and you have a chance of causing color loss on both of them with high pH preconditioners. The "three polys", not so much.
As Ron rightly brings up, you cannot tell the total alkalinity of a solution by its pH reading, so you won't know if it has been neutralized unless you test the pH after you have extracted the carpet.
I just talked to a cleaner today who has been prespraying with a 11 + prespray and has had to clear water rinse because of a failed injection system. He now has complaints that carpet is drying with a harsh hand. He had previously used an acid rinse before the failure of his system. So the "feel" of the carpet is also an issue if you don't have an appropriate rinse agent.
Regarding the warranty question:
No one will ever recommend that your cleaning agents exceed a manufacturer's requirement during warranty periods.
Its helpful to understand, though that stain resistant treatments are not very durable, are removed somewhat by traffic and soil, and that even supposed "stain resistant safe" products that say so because the pH is less than 10 often still remove stain resistance because of their total alkalinity and/or solvent additives in their formulation.
If you have little to do during the slow season, get a sample of nylon carpet (good luck with that...carpet stores are having a torrid love affair with "the polys" right now).
In any event, clean a section of the sample with a "just under 10" ph product that should be safe for stain resistance, let it dry, then spill a drink with red dye in it on the sample.
You'll learn a lot from the test.
Nylon and wool are pH sensitive, and you have a chance of causing color loss on both of them with high pH preconditioners. The "three polys", not so much.
As Ron rightly brings up, you cannot tell the total alkalinity of a solution by its pH reading, so you won't know if it has been neutralized unless you test the pH after you have extracted the carpet.
I just talked to a cleaner today who has been prespraying with a 11 + prespray and has had to clear water rinse because of a failed injection system. He now has complaints that carpet is drying with a harsh hand. He had previously used an acid rinse before the failure of his system. So the "feel" of the carpet is also an issue if you don't have an appropriate rinse agent.
Regarding the warranty question:
No one will ever recommend that your cleaning agents exceed a manufacturer's requirement during warranty periods.
Its helpful to understand, though that stain resistant treatments are not very durable, are removed somewhat by traffic and soil, and that even supposed "stain resistant safe" products that say so because the pH is less than 10 often still remove stain resistance because of their total alkalinity and/or solvent additives in their formulation.
If you have little to do during the slow season, get a sample of nylon carpet (good luck with that...carpet stores are having a torrid love affair with "the polys" right now).
In any event, clean a section of the sample with a "just under 10" ph product that should be safe for stain resistance, let it dry, then spill a drink with red dye in it on the sample.
You'll learn a lot from the test.
