So Who's Liable?

[renegade_cowboy]

What if a tenants kid was the first to use the spigot, I just dont see how the PM would go after those people because its the PM responsibly to maintain their pipes inside and out. They didnt even use covers. I always wondered how i would deal with it if I cleaned an empty house for a PM that had damage prior to me using the pipes. How can you realistically know whats going on inside the buildings walls? Their insurance should cover it. just my opinion.

 

[John Olson]

Ok......just trying to help you not have to learn it the hard way but instead learn from the dozen or so others that I know of personally and the 100's more that this has happened to. Try it your way and let us know how it works out.

P.S. no need to get upset I'm trying to help and I'm 100% right not because I'm a lawyer but because my friends have lost thousands doing just what your doing I can give you their phone numbers if you would like.

 

[Ken Snow]

LOL- while you may not like the delivery I do believe John is right in this case. Your agent will be able to advise you though Jamie.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[John Olson]

What if a tenants kid was the first to use the spigot, I just dont see how the PM would go after those people because its the PM responsibly to maintain their pipes inside and out. They didnt even use covers. I always wondered how i would deal with it if I cleaned an empty house for a PM that had damage prior to me using the pipes. How can you realistically know whats going on inside the buildings walls? Their insurance should cover it. just my opinion.

You must have a signed waiver/hold harmless agreement signed. Call your agent and lawyer and add it to your list of paper work.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Good lesson for us all.. Sorry about your luck jamie, please keep us updated.

 

[everfresh1]

Good lesson for us all.. Sorry about your luck jamie, please keep us updated.

Yep

 

[FredC]

I don't know any attorneys so I called Mel Gibson......he says its definitely your fault.

 

[jcooper]

John,

If that's the case(cleaners fault no matter what), why wouldn't thousands of cleaners have clients signing these forms before starting?

 

[Chris A]

I don't know any attorneys so I called Mel Gibson......he says its definitely your fault.

Lol!

 

[bob vawter]

off hand i'd say it is YOU!

 

[RGH269]

I have used faucets that were broken as this one fortunately no flood occurred and I never had a problem with a customer because of it.

But back in the very beginning of my cleaning career I was trying to be Mr. Thorough and move all furnishings. I was at a home that belonged to the boyfriend of a niece, he had a small gun cabinet so I was taking the guns out to move it (it was just a small wooden one with a glass door) a shotgun went off, blew a hole through the door of the gun cabinet, a table and on through the wall. It held a real tight pattern. At that moment I was just thankful no one got hurt or worse. I went to my agent and told her what happened and was told that the insurance co. may not pay for it because he didn't tell me there was a loaded gun in it. and they may consider him at fault. Lets be honest in that case there was plenty of blame to go around, starting with me. My insurance co. did pay for the damage and my rate did not go up.

So Jamie don't worry about what the manager said or anyone here, remember your insurance co is on your side if it is determined it is your fault they will pay that is why you have it, but I can bet you they wont pay if they don't think it's your fault.
Anyone could have turned that faucet on that is why the complex has insurance.

PS I have also had the opportunity to sit in on mediation between two insurace co's when no agreement could be reached, now that was an enlightning experience.

 

[everfresh1]

I have used faucets that were broken as this one fortunately no flood occurred and I never had a problem with a customer because of it.

But back in the very beginning of my cleaning career I was trying to be Mr. Thorough and move all furnishings. I was at a home that belonged to the boyfriend of a niece, he had a small gun cabinet so I was taking the guns out to move it (it was just a small wooden one with a glass door) a shotgun went off, blew a hole through the door of the gun cabinet, a table and on through the wall. It held a real tight pattern. At that moment I was just thankful no one got hurt or worse. I went to my agent and told her what happened and was told that the insurance co. may not pay for it because he didn't tell me there was a loaded gun in it. and they may consider him at fault. Lets be honest in that case there was plenty of blame to go around, starting with me. My insurance co. did pay for the damage and my rate did not go up.

So Jamie don't worry about what the manager said or anyone here, remember your insurance co is on your side if it is determined it is your fault they will pay that is why you have it, but I can bet you they wont pay if they don't think it's your fault.
anyone could have turned that faucet on that is why they have insurance.

PS I have also had the opportunity to sit in on mediation between two insurace co's when no agreement could be reached, now that was an enlightning experience.

:shock: Wow thats crazy....Thanks

 

[John Olson]

John,

If that's the case(cleaners fault no matter what), why wouldn't thousands of cleaners have clients signing these forms before starting?

The ones that have been sued and lost all do now. It is called care custody and control. Once you choose to turn it on without permission you are liable for everything that happens after that period.

P.S. remember I'm in a state that this happens more then it should. Always always ask for written permission to use someone's water especially in the winter and spring but it should just be part of your work authorization process.

 

[ACE]

My question is how many $12.00 a Rm cleanings will it take Jamie to pay for the Lawsuit?

 

[everfresh1]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

John,

If that's the case(cleaners fault no matter what), why wouldn't thousands of cleaners have clients signing these forms before starting?

The ones that have been sued and lost all do now. It is called care custody and control. Once you choose to turn it on without permission you are liable for everything that happens after that period.

P.S. remember I'm in a state that this happens more then it should. Always always ask for written permission to use someone's water especially in the winter and spring but it should just be part of your work authorization process.

I been in and around this business over 25yrs, never had a problem, been using outside faucets almost the whole time, I'm not going to have people down in Detroit and in most suburbs for that matter sign some stupid weaver every job ..Craziness :roll:

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Two things will help:

1: Figure out how to carry at least SOME onboard water, enough to a typical job at minimum. This will allow you to pick and choose not to hook up on every job. 160gal gets me thru most days, but after lunch I will often top off if it's handy.

2: Learn how to spot broken faucets. I have three 50' x 3/8" water feed hoses on orange electrical cord reels. Each has a ball shut off and garden hose quick-coupler that either hooks to my TM water inlet or the next section of feed hose. I carry the first section to the faucet and turn on the water. Because the reel's valve is OFF the reel is pressurized immediately, and I listen for the sound of water flow. If it's ok I then continue back to the truck. (This also saves trips back to turn on the water later). You will likely NEVER hear the broken water if you don't do this on startup.

If you can't carry water, and you find the outside faucet is out of service, or missing, you then have to use an adapter and look for an INSIDE source of water.

 

[Jtuseo]

Dont worry. If they sue you, go to court plead your case to the judge. If you lose. Dissolve your corporation and open a new one. Done deal.

 

[everfresh1]

Two things will help:

1: Figure out how to carry at least SOME onboard water, enough to a typical job at minimum. This will allow you to pick and choose not to hook up on every job. 160gal gets me thru most days, but after lunch I will often top off if it's handy.

2: Learn how to spot broken faucets. I have three 50' x 3/8" water feed hoses on orange electrical cord reels. Each has a ball shut off and garden hose quick-coupler that either hooks to my TM water inlet or the next section of feed hose. I carry the first section to the faucet and turn on the water. Because the reel's valve is OFF the reel is pressurized immediately, and I listen for the sound of water flow. If it's ok I then continue back to the truck. (This also saves trips back to turn on the water later). You will likely NEVER hear the broken water if you don't do this on startup.

If you can't carry water, and you find the outside faucet is out of service, or missing, you then have to use an adapter and look for an INSIDE source of water.

All this time i haven't had onboard water and you actually think i wouldn't have adapters to hook up inside? i use mini vans, I don't carry water and don't need to 99% of the time. The electrical cord reel is an idea through, can you post a picture of what you use when you get a chance?

 

[rwcarpet]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I'm only going to say this once and I am not going to argue. It is 100% your fault and you will pay for it unless you have written authorization to use the spigot and a release/hold harmless waiver signed by the property owner or their agent. There is no debate sorry. Your are not the first and every single person that has done it and did not accept responsibility has lost in court every single one. Call your agent and get it fixed immediately as your insurance most likely will not cover your attorney fees and might not cover the loss if you continue to refuse responsibillity.

Again im not going to argue facts are facts and it is what it is and it is yours. Sucks sorry

I gotta go with John on this one........I've had a few do that. I will usually crimp off the hose and listen for water. A quick squirt of water will probably do no damage, so long as you get it off immediately! The worst time of the year is usually spring, when it all starts thawing. Always be cautious if there is a hose hooked up and froze. I even go into the basement to check ocationally. One problem like this can spread like wildfire with Twitter and internet, FB, and .....Angies list.

Contact your insurance agent and let them know that there may be a claim.

Cheaper than fightin' a lawsuit.

 

[everfresh1]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I'm only going to say this once and I am not going to argue. It is 100% your fault and you will pay for it unless you have written authorization to use the spigot and a release/hold harmless waiver signed by the property owner or their agent. There is no debate sorry. Your are not the first and every single person that has done it and did not accept responsibility has lost in court every single one. Call your agent and get it fixed immediately as your insurance most likely will not cover your attorney fees and might not cover the loss if you continue to refuse responsibillity.

Again im not going to argue facts are facts and it is what it is and it is yours. Sucks sorry

I gotta go with John on this one........I've had a few do that. I will usually crimp off the hose and listen for water. A quick squirt of water will probably do no damage, so long as you get it off immediately! The worst time of the year is usually spring, when it all starts thawing. Always be cautious if there is a hose hooked up and froze. I even go into the basement to check ocationally. One problem like this can spread like wildfire with Twitter and internet, FB, and .....Angies list.

Contact your insurance agent and let them know that there may be a claim.

Cheaper than fightin' a lawsuit.

No Basement in this place, that was part of the problem. the shut off was right inside the livingroom :roll:

 

[Becker]

I know the faucet well....

They are frost free..

Often when a hose is left connected in cold weather, water will not drain from the neck of the valve. Freeze and break.
It will only leak when turned on.

So, I always.. Year around connect, turn on, kink hose and listen. Often besides hearing you can feel the hose does not back up pressure. A sure sign the neck is leaking.

IMO, if this happened to me, I'd roll over and take blame.
I would feel this was my mistake.
But maybe because I know better.

I come across just 5-10 broken valves a year.

Something else I do, because I don't use on board water.

Often I always use my own hose when connected.

But if I used the clients, I always discounted it after use in the colder months. No matter if it was or was not connected before hand.
When using my own hose, I never reconnect theirs in the cold months.

Sorry it happened to you.

I'd take blame, but not offer blame.

 

[FredC]

cool...don't think I've ever seen one....if I did I wasn't aware it was different

7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGivdllXVM7]



so they left the outside closed and it didn't drain....then it froze and broke inbetween the outside spigot and the valve..............which leaked once it was opened....

the more you know...........



still your fault....

 

[Becker]

Many frost free valves have the knob right on the front.. so the shaft can extend back..

Non frost free have the knob on top, or at and angle.

 

[FredC]

yeah I realized that watching the vid......


but of I hadn't I would just have assumed it was different....not necessarily serving a purpose....Jamie should have taken precautions since he obviously knows better

 

[Becker]

cool...don't think I've ever seen one....if I did I wasn't aware it was different

l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGivdllXVMl]



so they left the outside closed and it didn't drain....then it froze and broke inbetween the outside spigot and the valve..............which leaked once it was opened....

the more you know...........



still your fault....

Reason it froze and broke is because often a hose was left connected and the water was not able to drain from the neck of the valve, after the stopper.

Take the hose off, all the water drains from the valve..

Works much like one of these..

The valves are ever stamped or printed, Remove hose in freezing weather.

I'd say 50% of my clients don't.

The thin brass ones break easy.. The heavier more common ones stand up a bit better today.

Hell, were is connor when he could really be useful?

 

[Becker]

Agreed..

 

[FredC]

ok....I see...



for whatever reason I wasn't thinking that the pipe from the spigot to the valve would be free to drain....when closed



and I would still consider it my fault.....even if I didn't know

 

[Becker]

The valve is designed to shut the water off 12-18" back into the wall or building.

 

[FredC]

yeah...I get it now.....well a couple post ago....


just counter-intuitive.....I guess at first I envisioned the ability to close the line in two places with the one valve..independent of one another..not sure how the fook I though that would work

 

[rhyde]

Call your insurance company explain what happened if the owners of the complex want to file a claim or sue they will have to deal with your insurance co. and attorneys or arbitrated between both insurance companies (if they have insurace?) if not good luck to them! if they do the two will likely use a 3rd party to determine liability this stuff happens all the time


I'm appraising rugs in a insurance water loss in a business complex the tenants insurance co. is going after the building owners insurance for failure to maintain the building which resulted in the loss of rugs ...did I mention the tenant is also the owner of the building!