question for other Sapphire 1200 owners

[knoxclean]

I know there a few others here that have the Sapphire 1200 and I was hoping you would give me some feed back on your machine.

First what speed are you running you unit on? What temps are you getting on that speed? Also do you need to preheat the blower for 10-15 minutes by blocking off the vac port before every job just to get that heat?

The reason I ask is I still can't get heat above 170 unless we run the machine on high for about 15 minutes with the vac port blocked before every job. This is what they told me to do when I took it in because of the heat problem but I still think that we should not have to do that just to get the correct heat. I'm no gear head but will that over time put a strain on the blower? It also bothers me because the manual says to run the machine on medium for single wanding. We cannot get heat unless we run on high and preheat the blower. The machine run great when we do this but i feel this is not the way the unit is supposed to be run.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

We run one Pro2000 (2x 45's and 2 waste tanks), no problem with heat single wanding, 215ish. Could use more dualling, but we only do that in August on the turns. Winter time , no experience yet.

I think there is a simple glitch no one has found yet David.

 

[Buck1955]

that doesn't sound right. Your distributor should get that fixed

 

[ruff]

As an old Cds user I'm planning on buying a new 1200 shortly.
Definitely would like to hear from Sapphire if this is a real issue.

Is the heat equivalent to the CDS with the Salsa?
What heat should I expect at machine?

 

[Chris A]

I.dunno about the 1200, but I can get my salsa cds up to 200 in just a couple minutes by capping the vacuum to heat the blower

 

[ruff]

Yep. My Cds gets the water hot practically instantaneously, as the heat exchanger use the radiator water for heating (don't have the Salsa though.)

 

[hogjowl]

I'm not getting a very good impression of Sapphire over all of this. SOMEBODY needs to step up an own the problem.

 

[Dolly Llama]

I I was hoping you would give me some feed back on your machine.



I'm no gear head .

I know, that's why I have to ask, did you check out any new 1200's running before you decided to buy?
Did you talk to anyone that owns and runs one?
cause surely you wouldn't buy one sight unseen from a disty that's TWO THOUSAND miles away??


..L.T.A.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I'm not getting a very good impression of Sapphire over all of this. SOMEBODY needs to step up an own the problem.

They did a couple of weeks ago, but probably haven't seen this one, as it was posted after 5pm today.

 

[hogjowl]

I don't think they handled it properly the first time, Lee. Who here seriously thinks it's normal to have to preheat a blower for fifteen minutes? That was their solution. And why put three speeds on a machine if they suggest you only run it on high?

 

[Mikey P]

Dave what are the temps there during the days lately?

 

[FredC]

I know they gave you a bunch of suggestions to get the heat up..............but have you actually checked the temps of both the coolant and solution at different stages?

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Mine aren't sapphire but I'd like to comment/question/ help......if I can

Observations:
-A 2013 Chevrolet 6.0L uses a 187F thermostat. The sapphire manual doesn't list changing that in their installation instructions.
-The pro 1200 has a single coolant hx. Lee's machine (if stock) as well as the 4 that I have are equipped with 2 coolant heat exchangers. The sapphire looks bigger but may not have any more coil than a single of our version. You may need 2 hx for sufficient coolant heat if using a high flow wand.
-The machine gets additional heat from a blower exchanger. If the blower isn't getting hotter then your coolant then you are cooling your water with the blower hx. Unless the blower is restricted on the exhaust side your only making about 175F at 14hg and the 2350 rpms it runs at. I assume 2350 is high speed. Low speed will generate more heat at 14hg but your vacuum relief is probably set to 14 fully capped off on max speed. This means your probably pulling 12ish or less on medium in most cleaning situations.

My unofficial not sapphire approved advise is to find out if your blower exhaust is restricted and if not then set your relief valve to 16 or 17 fully capped of on high. We run our machines that way everytime we use them.

I'd also either use an inline temp gauge to check the coolant hx output temp or run the machine without the blower belts on to see what your output is without the blower hx.

Take a look at the vacuum performance curve: http://www.pdblowers.com/admin/uploads/56_urai_vacuum_performance_curve.pdf

Reference your machines specs on Page 7 of your manual: http://www.sapphirescientific.com/U...MANUAL SAPPHIRE PRO-1200 REV A 9-29-11_01.pdf

 

[Ray Burnfield]

All the machines PTO's and slide-in that come in to my shop take time (5-10mins) to get hot when you first start them. If you are driving to the job with the Pro-1200 or a CDS and your van is at normal temperature you should get heat pretty quick. It takes both the engine coolant temperature and the Blower exhaust to get to temperature before the water get's to a good cleaning temperature. By restricting the vacuum port you are putting the load on the Blower that will allow the exhaust to help heat your exchanger. Once you get the machines hot, the water should stay hot the rest the day.
Unless you take a long lunch and a long nap before you get to the next job. Especially in the freeze.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

You can also turn off the vans heater if it's a PTO.

 

[knoxclean]

The van temp is right at 210 so that is correct. They told me that it is preheating fine but when it goes into the blower heat exchanger it cools down because the blower is not hot enough. So their solution was pre heat the blower for 15 minutes on high. Thing is we have to do it on each and every job. I just don't think that is right. When I ran Butlers we ran it on medium and never had to pre heat the bower to get the correct temps. Mike to answer your question we have had some 50 degree days here so the outside temps should not effect it. Ray we never run the van heater. Fred I have not tested them temps of the coolant or solution at different stages. I feel I should not have play mechanic on a new set up and I really am not that good at it anyway nor do I have to tools or gauges needed to do the testing. I still haven't heard from other 1200 owners on their experience. Larry I did check out the 1200's last year when I was in Pittsburg at Pembertons for a class. We ran it for two day during our rug class and I was impressed with it. I really liked how much room was left open in the back of the van and also how quiet the machine was. The one they had ran great.

 

[Desk Jockey]

David why do not run your units on high?

We've run everything (Butler's Prochem's Hydramasters) on high unless its upholstery. Even then if we are flowing enough water we would probably run on high then too.

 

[knoxclean]

Im not sure I got an answer but I did ask before about the blower being put through the steps that we are doing. I am no gear head so I wanted to know that over time if we continue the run this machine at the highest speed with the vac port blocked off for 15 minutes before each job are we going to damage the blower or cause premature wear?

 

[bob vawter]

just curious...what stat are you/they running in your machine?

 

[Desk Jockey]

I can't see it damaging the blower, its designed to run continuously even full blocked the vacuum brake keeps it from over stressing the blower.

Premature wear? You're getting wear anytime you run any unit.

So if you're not doing anything with it for 15-minutes that's kind of a waste of machine but if the jobs demand that sort of heat and nothing less will do, then that's the best option. ???

 

[Out of Character - 0]

That shouldn't hurt the blower unless your lift setting is higher than 14. Your blower is rated to 16 but it's spun slow so that your artificial lift rating is 14. The clutch is the weak link in the system but is capable of handling 14hg+ on high, clutches are cheap.

 

[hogjowl]

You're not being very helpful, Reeko.

 

[BLewis]

Just a comment and an observation that I had when the engineer flew out to witness an actual cleaning situation when I was experiencing lack of heat in my new V. When I was setting up and turn the unit on I proceeded to block off the suction port to the blower about 80% to speed up the heating process and he panicked when he thought Ai was going to block it 100% and was even reaching to change it when he realized that I wasn't blocking it all the way. Just my observation but I never ask him why he looked concerned.

 

[hogjowl]

He was worried you were going to lose your hand.

 

[knoxclean]

Richard we started running the machine on medium because that's the way the manual says to. I heard back from John Olson who told me we are not doing damage to the blower so that makes me feel better. So basically I guess I need to not compare this machine to the Butler when it comes to operation. With the Butlers we ran them on medium speed and they were hot in just a few minutes of cleaning and we never had to preheat the blower. The Sapphire requires this on each job to obtain the heat i guess. If that is the case the manual should be rewritten and a new set of instruction should be given out for operation of the machine. This would have been a deal breaker for me had I known. I guess you just assume some things when buying a truck mount and I guess I didn't do enough investigating and that is my fault. It's like when you go to buy a Lexus you get all excited about how the car looks and you are happy with all the features but you over look the small details that you assume come with the vehicle. Like you would assume it came with a radio or a gas gauge but after you buy it you find out they were not part of the car. Why would you check those features when looking at the car they should be there right? That's the way I feel about the 1200. Yea it runs great but you have to do a few more steps to make it work. I would have assumed it would come with a place to put the 5 gallon jug but I just didn't think to look at that. I also assumed it came with a 5 gallon mix jug but it didn't. All the other tm's I bought came with one so I "assumed" this would too. Most truckmounts come with a site gauge for the water tank or you can see the level easily from the tank, I assumed this would too. Again my fault for not looking into it more. If I ran the truck this would not be as big of a deal but with employees I learned you have to make it as easy as possible or they won't do what is necessary. They will run the water tank dry, they won't in most cases preheat the blower, and they will get sick of filling a 2 gallon mix jug and let it run dry.

 

[Mikey P]

There is nowhere to put a 5 gal jug?

 

[hogjowl]

I hear you David. You can't check for EVERYTHING. Especially on a unit that you don't get to see until it's finished. I have to wonder if a carpet cleaner was even involved in the design of the 1200? It's a shame that you have to be the bulletin board beta tester of the 1200.

But, once again, thank you for telling us these things.

The cramped Butler is looking better every day.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I see. I don't know enough about how the 1200 operates to comment on it. There are many owners that love them so hopefully someone can speak with knowledge on it.

The mix jug I know the last few PC's we bought it didn't come with one. We bought the heavy duty one's they use for brine tanks. They last longer than the cheap hedpacks. I'd check and see if it just hose that keeps you from positioning your tank where you want. Hose is cheap and replacing short hose for longer may solve the inconvenience. ???

 

[hogjowl]

Richard ... have you met, seen, or heard from any of these "many owners that love them"?

I've looked, and have only found two. One loves his.

And the other is David.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Yea I met Art at MF in Nashville and he has two. ACE in Lawrence, KS has or had one too.

You can bite me now.