Interview with Werner Braun PART TWO 3-14 -07

[Bob Foster]

Mr. Braun

Will just as much effort and money be spent to inform the public of the different qualities of carpet and what they mean to an individual consumer?

Will an effort to sway the mills to make better carpets come about by pressure from the consumers who have been enlightened as to what makes a good carpet?

Do you believe yourself that the quality of products on the market have a lot more to do with customer satisfaction than if a product is cleaned by SOA equipment?

 

[Mike Brummett]

Let me get this right - the rug doctor is cri approved BUT a consumer cant use it UNLESS they are a certified firm by the IICRC - to do so would void their mill warrentee , right ??

We are doing this for the consumer right , so in doing so we are going to let the consumer know that any cleaning done with this machine UNLESS they are an IICRC certified firm will void their warrentee - am I correct ??

O.K., I know you asked Werner, but allow me to chime in here, if I may:

You are incorrect.
If your car is under warranty, you can still change your own oil, but you must use oil that meets the standards set by the auto manufacturer.
The SOA linked warranties make allowances for the carpet owners to clean their own carpets, provided they use approved equipment and chemicals.

Furthermore, the requirement to use IICRC Certified firms for professional cleaning does not kick in until Jan, 1, 2008.

MIKE

 

[Lonnie]

"CRI created the Seal of Approval programs to test and recognize cleaning chemicals, extractors, and systems that work. The independent decisions by certain mills to tie their warranties to the CRI SOA programs came a year or two after the decision was made to initiate the SOA programs. As I've stated before, I'm gratified that the some mills have come to the independent conclusion that CRI's SOA programs are credible enough to be tied to their warranties. W"

Do you not think that the pressure of Shaw to run with this program effects everyone. I understand that many mills purchase fiber from Shaw....So that not really independant.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

In your article in Installation & Cleaning Specialist you made a comment regarding "orphan machines" where you mentioned the possibility of testing with SOA Certified Cleaning Agents and a SOA Certified Wand.

Have you tested wands independently? Or do you consider a wand that has already been tested with a SOA machine to be the SOA Certified Wand?

 

[Guest]

I really thought that there might be professionalism shown here for Mr Braun. But obviously we would rather throw rude comments that get you nowhere, than try to get some reasonable answers. No wonder over half of the cleaning and restoration community do not have a clue about what is going on at the mills or CRI.

 

[Bob Wittkamp]

equip brands you make or promote

I notice in your profile that under the question: equipment brands you make or promote CRI. Could you share with us what type of equipment you make at CRI?

 

[The Cleaning Artist]

CRI created the Seal of Approval programs to test and recognize cleaning chemicals, extractors, and systems that work. The independent decisions by certain mills to tie their warranties to the CRI SOA programs came a year or two after the decision was made to initiate the SOA programs. As I've stated before, I'm gratified that the some mills have come to the independent conclusion that CRI's SOA programs are credible enough to be tied to their warranties. W

Some of the same people of CRI have other interests. Do you think they may have a "conflict of interest"?

Seems so to me as those persons and their other affiliations make a connection to getting your SOA program backed.

 

[Werner Braun]

Hello,
I operate my business in an area of the country called "the gold coast" Fairfield ,Connecticut. I have been in business for seventeen years and through all these years ..I have never been asked once if I was "certified" much less if the particular machine I was using was "certified". I provide services for some very prominent people- I go into many homes with values exceeding the million dollar mark- and wonder what advantages would there be to have a certified machine? Especially ,if a "rug doctor" is "certified" why would I want an association with a machine of that caliber?
Thank you ,
Bruce Hall

Bruce, I congratulate you on what is obviously a very successful business. Unfortunately, as my friend Bill Bane has pointed out to me on numerous occasions, not everyone in this business is as reputable as you must be to have been in business for 17 years. In addition, as we have tested both chemicals and equipment, we have found that not all chemicals nor all equipment works to a level that would insure customer satisfaction. The customers are the ones that told us that they are dissatisfied with the cleaning and maintenance of their carpet. That's why CRI got into these programs.

I'm sure that many folks in your community were surprised, as we were, at the performance of the Rug Doctor equipment. However, the data does speak for itself with respect to soil removal. But, as you certainly understand, the equipment is only part of the equation for having a quality cleaning experience. For the very best result you need good cleaning chemicals, good equipment, and good operators such as yourself.

It is my understanding in talking with Shaw and Mohawk that their warranties do not apply to builder grade carpet, about 35% of the market, where the vast majority of Rug Doctor machines would be used. W

 

[Guest]

I'm guessing that if you fork over the money to get a machine or chem tested ... you'll pass and get a rating. If you keep up the annual fee you'll keep your rating.

Is that correct? If not how many have failed? What manufacturers have failed?

 

[Werner Braun]

Werner,

How many carpets have you cleaned in "Real" world situations?


Jim

Zero. I use cleaning professionals. And I don't do tune ups on my Porsche either.

 

[dmsclean]

Gary,
It -for me -is hard to show professionalism-when I truly feel this is just a money making scam. This does not hurt my business at all. I just feel bad for some of the "others" who may believe in this "system". It is a "crock" I have said this before I have customers purchasing carpeting for there home that cost more than my car..and they could give two hoots about "certified"

 

[Mikey P]

Glen


Don't mistake "Rude" for "Emotional"...


A lot of us cleaners have our lively hoods on the line with the SOA program.




If some one was digging into your wallet I wouldn't expect you to remain cool, calm and professional.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Mr Braun, could you please clarify if there are different tests for different equipment?

Steve Poulos tells there are indeed different tests.
He tells us the tests for a Hydromaster Boxer 427 and Rotary Dri-Master tool were as follows;

Three carpet samples

sample 1.) 4 wet or dry passes
sample 2.) 4 wet or dry passes
sample 3.) 4 wet or dry passes

The results were used to determine ranking.

However, their Express Multi Surface Machine with Extraction Head was tested in this way:

1 carpet sample:

4 passes
Turned 90 degrees
4 passes
Turned 90 degrees

This went on 11 times for a total of 44 passes on one carpet, versus 4 with the 427 and Dri-Master

That sounds like two different tests to me.

Are you aware of this?
Has this different type of testing been changed since Hydromaster's tests in August '05?

Thank you

..l.T.A.

 

[Mike Brummett]

Bob Wittkamp:

That is a board glitch.

Until recently on mine (and still, on many others) under equipment brands you make/promote, it read "Lawrence, KS".

The question got changed from "Your location" or something like that.

Regards,

MIKE

 

[Steve Poulos]

CRI-SOA

Wow, you all have a super wide and varied concern over the program. I have been involved with the SOA program from the onset and have been to PTL for equipment testing. Did I mention I work for a manufacturer?
Our firm has two interests with this program. First, sales is interested because we would like to have more sales. Second and to me was the engineering dept that finally had a quantifiable way to measure that was superior to anything available in the past.

For us, it's a start for a serious bit of improvement to the industry.
My Question would be this,
As a consumer, how does one identify thedifferencee between a commercial SOA test and a residential test. I've had both tested and can't tell which is which on the website.

 

[Werner Braun]

Werner,


When was the last time you had your own carpets cleaned? What can you tell us about that, and how much did you study how the tech or company operated. How nice, soft, and clean are your own carpets?


Jimmy James
WG Cleaning

Jimmy, we have our carpets cleaned about once a year and it's about time once again. Each time my wife and I have our carpet cleaned, we seek referrals from friends in the cleaning and maintenance community. We have never been dissatisfied.

Where I made my mistake is when I attempted to remove some spots from our bone white carpet in the children's room. This was before the SOA program and the spot remover I used had horrendous resoiling. Hopefully the deep extraction cleaning which we will do shortly will remedy the situation. W

 

[vincent]

Glen

Mikey is right, I myself have a hard time understanding all of this. But at the same time I see it as a corporate money grab.

All due respect I think the CRI has created a circus

 

[The Preacher]

Werner,

most of the carpet cleaners are independent operators. does CRI expect a majority of us to pay to be SOA and if so, we expect a ROI. how much of a return can we expect?

Danny Strickland
Nitty Gritty Tallahassee FL

 

[cu]

after all your testing and such. will cri and iicrc and the mills run ad,s on tv letting mr and mrs public know how much training ,equipment, and chems cost pros the ,and in some way do something that is of real help to us
as it stands it looks to me as just someone else trying to get into my pocket
who was it that ran the ad with the tag line ...you dont know us ,but you know all the things to make....3m or basf

 

[Lonnie]

"Deep Extraction Cleaning"

Why would you place a descriptive term on a test. It gives a preconceived outcome..

If you test say Bonnet cleaning will you call it Deep Bonnet Cleaning?

 

[harryhides]

Mr Braun.
A friend who cannot be here tonight has asked me to ask the following question:

In your prior interview on this forum you emphatically indicated that the testing protocol was identical for both truckmounts and portables. Yet we see on the CRI website itself (“deep cleaning systemsâ€ÂÂ

 

[Werner Braun]

Why do you have a non cleaner chairing the CRI Cleaning Committee?

Why has not CRI tested Low Moisture systems?

Is it true that the current chair of the cleaning committee has written a document and taken a position that only HWE should be tested?

As a non profit do you think that the current set up is fair and equitable in its make up?

At the fact finding roll out at Georgia Tech all these issues that are currently being addressed were covered and just a few weeks later CRI rolled out SOA with no visable application of the concerns..why is that?

Lonnie, the CRI SOA program for cleaning systems is certainly open to low moisture systems. Any manufacturer that wishes to submit low moisture systems for testing will certainly be accommodated.

As they say, often times you need to learn how to walk before you can run. There is no question that from the outset we knew that we didn't have all the answers to all of the questions. There has been an enormous amount of effort that has gone into the development of the CRI SOA programs. We knew from the outset as well that the programs would need to be ever-green so that we could address some of the issues that were identified earlier as new solutions became available.

We are dedicated to continuous improvement. That's one of the reasons I'm taking time away from my family this evening to give folks like you an opportunity to share your concerns. W

 

[vincent]

I can see John G now, setting back and smiling.

 

[The Cleaning Artist]

It is my understanding in talking with Shaw and Mohawk that their warranties do not apply to builder grade carpet, about 35% of the market, where the vast majority of Rug Doctor machines would be used. W

You nor Shaw can assume this and pass that answer off to us professionals. If the machine has high merits(ratings) then why would MRS Homeowner not go rent and clean her own carpets? I'm sorry that as a 16 year Veteran cleaner (same location, same business name, same ph#) I disagree!
I see more and more $300,000+ homes that the homeowner "TRIED" to clean them themselves.

 

[Mike Brummett]

A lot of us cleaners have our lively hoods on the line with the SOA program.
If some one was digging into your wallet I wouldn't expect you to remain cool, calm and professional

Mikey,
Please feel free to share an example of where and when SOA has cost you money or hurt you so far.
Please specify amounts, dates, names, etc.

Lot's of things I'm not crazy about with SOA, but it has not got in my pocket -yet.

Thanks,

MIKE

 

[Werner Braun]

O.K., Terry, you've had your fun, now back to the legitimate questions:

Werner:

The current SOA testing has been on deep cleaning, or extraction systems.

Will CRI be testing some of the other viable cleaning methods, such as bonnet/pad cleaning and encapsulation cleaning? And if so, approximately when?

Also, will these methods, equipment chemicals, etc. be eligible for SOA ratings?

Mike, the C&M IMT has on their priorty list consideration of a program for interim cleaning systems such as bonnet, etc. The encapsulation systems can already be tested under the existing SOA systems program. W

Thanks, MIKE

 

[vincent]

In case I missed it, but will you mention the manufactors that didn't pass.

 

[Jim]

Werner, you wrote

Jimmy, we have our carpets cleaned about once a year and it's about time once again. Each time my wife and I have our carpet cleaned, we seek referrals from friends in the cleaning and maintenance community. We have never been dissatisfied.

If you are never dissatisfied, why choose a new cleaner each time? Most of my daily business is repeat satisfied customers.

 

[Werner Braun]

Let me get this right - the rug doctor is cri approved BUT a consumer cant use it UNLESS they are a certified firm by the IICRC - to do so would void their mill warrentee , right ??

We are doing this for the consumer right , so in doing so we are going to let the consumer know that any cleaning done with this machine UNLESS they are an IICRC certified firm will void their warrentee - am I correct ??

James

James, I'm going to have to duck this question since this is not CRI's turf. How warranties will be handled is a question only the mills in question can answer. W

 

[Werner Braun]

Can you tell us what machines have NOT passed your testing?

Mikey, it is not our policy to publish such data. We only publish the ones that pass.