Anti Groupon

Brian R

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This is what I responded to the blog with.


I'm a carpet cleaner and I've done 3 Groupon deals to date. 2 in the Dallas area and 1 in Sacramento area. I do agree with you somewhat in a that some businesses can be hurt with this type of deal. But some companies can benefit from it.
I sold right around 90 Groupon with each deal. The deals were $99.00 for 6 areas of carpet cleaning. I received 50% of that. The deal itself would not have made me money....that's where we agree. However, with my business model we seldom just sell a carpet cleaning job to a consumer. If they have extra areas like stairs or closets or extra rooms we charge extra. We offer things like Scotchgard, deodorizer, furiture cleaning, tile and grout cleaning and few other things on the menu. We will and did do only the cleaning on the deal when that's what the customer wanted. No hassles and no hard sales at all. But the ones that DID buy more made up for those who didn't. Plus, all the calls we received on the "side" of Groupon that scheduled with us directly. We were able to make money on the deal. I receive approximately $4000.00 from Groupon. I went on to make $10,000.00 more from those customers including more services, referrals, repeat customers etc. It works for some companies like mine but I will concede that it could be the downfall of many companies such as helicopter rides and the like. Will it hurt the entire economy? Maybe.

I will close with this statement and please pay attention.
If a company gets into Groupon and closes their doors because of the "deal" they made...they had no business being in business to begin with. Thinning the herd.

In that case, it could be a wonderful thing because sometimes there are too many "hack" type companies messing it up for the rest of us quality oriented companies.

Thanks
Brian Robison
Priority Carpet and Tile Cleaning
 

floorguy

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You cant just see that for "most" companies...its a BAD thing
 

Brian R

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I see that for most companies....because "most" companies are crap....for lack of a better term.

The biggest companies don't need Groupon because they have TV

Ken Snow doesn't need it because he has TV and Radio

Groupon is for the up and coming businesses that have their poop in a group (shit together).

If you use it as marketing dollars and not a get rich quick idea it WILL work

If it's "too much" marketing dollars being spent....don't do it.

If you want high end customers AND have a company that is diversified and sells more than one thing or level of service....it can be a good thing.

Like anything in business....will it work for yours at a level you can handle?


I will say it again...if you do a Groupon deal and you lose your business because of it....you shouldn't be in business anyway.
Why? Because you should have known NOT to do it OR the deal was not a deal you could handle.

Plain and simple.

I can't wait for Lisa's take on this. Ivebeensold
 
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Brian, how much profit do you suppose you would have made if you had a "traditional business" with the associated costs. Things like employees (not you), rent/utilities (not your home), company vehicles (not your personal car), insurance (based on payroll and having employees), equipment (would you send a tech out with just a jiggler?).

Is it bad for most companies because they are "crap" or because they are actually real companies?

Respectfully,
 

Bee Busy

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Not just Lisa...I'm curious to see what the rest of the other business owners blogging on there say
 

Brian R

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Out Of Character said:
Brian, how much profit do you suppose you would have made if you had a "traditional business" with the associated costs. Things like employees (not you), rent/utilities (not your home), company vehicles (not your personal car), insurance (based on payroll and having employees), equipment (would you send a tech out with just a jiggler?).

Is it bad for most companies because they are "crap" or because they are actually real companies?

Respectfully,


Not to say ALL that won't do it are crap companies. A "real" company will know whether they win or lose in that game and they should make their decision thusly.

I'm sure the Helicopter tour guide is a real company and he knows the structure of his company is not for Groupon....his mistake was generalizing it.

Some companies can make a killing with Groupon...or at least jump start their company.

How about a weekly service type company like house cleaning? It could be good for them. Or a bakery.
Jen and I have been back to the same bakery numerous times after buying a groupon once. They say it's been great....and they are a "real" company brick and mortar.


If I structured my business as most here do....or should do in their set up. I would still consider it.
But I can't answer that without really doing it....which is not my plan.

To each his own.

As I stated in another thread ... this whole Groupon thing could get out of hand but it really depends on where it goes from here. Some companies are going even lower than I would venture. Not sure how they are weathering that.

Time will tell.
 

Brian R

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For the record....I still think an owner operator can do well with Groupon. Especially if they have someone like Full Circle answering their phones.
 

floorguy

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Did ya read the WHOLE article???

he didnt "just" generalize with helicopter rides...he broke it down

he also put out there what i did, and like i said, I dont have a problem with people making money....I have a problem with them doing it in a dark room in their tighty whiteys

"It was right about then that I grew tired of the conversation. I could do the math; he didn’t even know what numbers to plug in. All he saw was a sweet deal for Groupon: $495 x 50% x 30% = $74.25 per voucher sold. Multiply that by, say 250 vouchers, and Groupon pockets over $18K — just by making a phone call and doing a bunch of things that are likely handled by its computer systems. Cha-ching! On to the next business!

heres the positive spin


The Exception: Fixed Cost or High Margin Businesses
Of course, this is just my business and another one similar to it. Clearly, businesses that have fixed costs or high profit margins can afford to get only 25¢ or 35¢ on the dollar for their products or services.

One guy who contacted me the last time I wrote about Groupon or Living Social has a rock-climbing business. He already has the equipment and the storefront. His operating costs don’t change based on the number of people who show up to use his facility. The extra few dollars per person he received through his deal could actually help him make ends meet. People paid $8 for a $16 service; he got $3.60 per voucher. He told me he expected 20% to 40% no shows and was happy with his deal. Of course, he only sold a few hundred.

Restaurants might also do well, since they often have high profit margins. (What does it really cost to make a latte?) But at least one restaurant owner suffered badly after a Groupon deal, primarily though larger crowds than she could handle, people using multiple Groupon vouchers to pay for an entire meal, and gratuities to servers based on the discounted amount rather than the full price (which didn’t make the staff very happy at all).

I wonder how many others have had similar experiences but just haven’t blogged about it.


My wife has bought a few vouchers for theme parks....well guess what, they are happy as punch to have someone walk through their doors, cuz they are open and burning power anyway.. In hopes they will return, in a mth or so at full price, and/or by the goodies there at 2-400% mark ups

For an owner/op, I think its horrible cuz your chasing around all this cheap stuff...if you have 2-3 trucks then its probably fine to keep your guys working, as you already have some fixed costs there anyway...

O/O BAD IDEA PERIOD
 

Brian R

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I did read that but I didn't think about it because the article is still bashing groupon.



It's not necessarily bad for an O/O for one simple reason. Upsells.

But if you have nothing more to offer than just carpet cleaning THEN it's a bad idea.



If you have nothing more to offer than carpet cleaning, you should get out now. But that last sentence is just my opinion.
 

floorguy

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Carpet cleaning....thinking about some pet stuffs, or reds....

Some times its more of a PITA to me plus I dont care how you sugar coat it, it seems like a "catch" to me.....I go to the oil place I WANT MY EFFIN OIL CHANGED, DONT ASK ME ABOUT THE OTHER STUFF, IF I BRING IT IN AND ASK YOU TO CHECK IT THEN YOU CAN ASK ME :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

same with carpets...hey can you get this out for me......sure i can try itll be $10

or

mam this is here i can take that out for you for $10...


I am sure its just me, which makes it hard to be the "other" type

but no, i do alot of "other" stuff...strip and wax, concrete, T&G etc....and for the most part i like my biz model.....sure i wish i was about 20% busier but who doesnt...


Now where is that groupon code for making my website !gotcha! !gotcha! !gotcha! !gotcha! !gotcha! !gotcha!
 

Brian R

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Most people who don't like doing sales.....do not like being sold to.

Some people who like doing sales....do not like being sold to either.


Most people don't mind being sold to.....it's HOW they are being sold to.


I let them know what I do, I offer it to them. It's never a "need" or "have to" situation....and that works better than the hard sale anyway.

You may not like being sold to but NOT letting your customer know exactly what you do and whether or not it will benefit them is doing a disservice both to your customer AND your company.
 

Ken Snow

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Brian R said:
Most people who don't like doing sales.....do not like being sold to.

Some people who like doing sales....do not like being sold to either.


Most people don't mind being sold to.....it's HOW they are being sold to.


I let them know what I do, I offer it to them. It's never a "need" or "have to" situation....and that works better than the hard sale anyway.

You may not like being sold to but NOT letting your customer know exactly what you do and whether or not it will benefit them is doing a disservice both to your customer AND your company.

Damn- I hate it when I agree 100% with Brian. :mrgreen:
 

dday

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Brian R said:
Most people who don't like doing sales.....do not like being sold to.

Some people who like doing sales....do not like being sold to either.


Most people don't mind being sold to.....it's HOW they are being sold to.


I let them know what I do, I offer it to them. It's never a "need" or "have to" situation....and that works better than the hard sale anyway.

You may not like being sold to but NOT letting your customer know exactly what you do and whether or not it will benefit them is doing a disservice both to your customer AND your company.

good post
 

rhino1

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Groupon rep that called me was a moron. Practically begged me to do a deal, so I came up with one that was structured where I wouldn't lose money, it would be a value, and would NOT alienate my current customer base. She "approved" the deal for a feature and we did the paperwork. Then she called 2 days later and said the city planners wouldn't approve the deal and tried to dicker with me again. I told her NO, do the deal we had or piss off. She called me again two days later and tried to get me to change it again. I told them I didn't trust them now and I wouldn't do business with them at all.

I can't stand liars or people that waste my time. Groupon reps have no integrity.
 

Brian R

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Thanks Ken and David


Chris, I would imagine that the reps work on a point system for bonuses or something. No telling.

But you did what was right for you and THAT'S what's important when making any advertising deal.

Ken will be the first to tell you that the radio reps just want to get time slots filled and will tell you whatever you need to hear to get you to sign for them.

That's the worst part of anything like this.

But I wouldn't hold the integrity of a company hostage because of one bad rep either.
 

rhino1

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Brian R said:
Thanks Ken and David


Chris, I would imagine that the reps work on a point system for bonuses or something. No telling.

But you did what was right for you and THAT'S what's important when making any advertising deal.

Ken will be the first to tell you that the radio reps just want to get time slots filled and will tell you whatever you need to hear to get you to sign for them.

That's the worst part of anything like this.

But I wouldn't hold the integrity of a company hostage because of one bad rep either.

Not hold the company responsible for the actions of employees? Hmmm, wonder how that would work in our business? So a business lie is OK? Sorry, but I don't lie to customers, or potential customers, just to make a sale and sales are how I get paid. Someone needs an integrity check if lying and misrepresenting their business is how they make sales.
 

Brian R

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rhino1 said:
Brian R said:
Thanks Ken and David


Chris, I would imagine that the reps work on a point system for bonuses or something. No telling.

But you did what was right for you and THAT'S what's important when making any advertising deal.

Ken will be the first to tell you that the radio reps just want to get time slots filled and will tell you whatever you need to hear to get you to sign for them.

That's the worst part of anything like this.

But I wouldn't hold the integrity of a company hostage because of one bad rep either.

Not hold the company responsible for the actions of employees? Hmmm, wonder how that would work in our business? So a business lie is OK? Sorry, but I don't lie to customers, or potential customers, just to make a sale and sales are how I get paid. Someone needs an integrity check if lying and misrepresenting their business is how they make sales.


What did they lie about?....I'll read your post again. lol
 

Brian R

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Oh, I see.

I've put in submissions for about 20 deals for Groupons and I've only had 3 go through all the way.

The Reps can't be held responsible for the deal getting declined by someone higher on the food chain.

Although the reps DID tell me that they would submit it and "see what happens". If they didn't at least tell you that then I can see where you might have been misled.
 

Bee Busy

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the Living Social guy I met was an ex rep from AT&T yellow pages. He said a large % of ex phone book reps are now with Groupon, Living Social, or SEO companies. I have no interest dealing with slimey dishrag salescum.
 

Brian R

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I hear ya. That's the worst part of any advertisement deal.

I can't think of one I've ever done where I didn't feel the rep was in it for himself more than me. Including Angie's List.

But I understand they have to make a living....They just don't have to be evil about.
 
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Not many people in this room know me but Bill with Busy Bees does and knows we do good work and are not the bottom dollar company in town. I tried out Living Social and was happy with the results. The fact of the matter is everyone is going to coupon deals in this economy no matter how much or how little money they have. When you run a deal like this you are not competing with 4 or 5 other cleaners so you can charge what you charge for whatever you want to do, 2 room, 3 rooms, etc. I dont encourage any pushy up sells and we have been getting extras on 9 out of 10 houses. Why? We are one of the first companies they called in at a great deal and did a great job for them so they added the extra rooms, couches, chairs, etc. 50% of the houses we have gone to so far had pet urine they wanted removed and then have the carpet protected. We are getting people rental houses out of this as well as their neighbors, family members, friends, etc at our regular price.
Are most of these people probably going to go to the next best deal next time, sure. Thats a given. But if they need a cleaning service right away between now and when the next deal comes out they will have your info. We are seeing people ready to spend more money because they got that initial 3 rooms cleaned at a good price. We wanted to be busier and finally get our name out to the residential market more so we ran this and have been cleaning 3-4 houses a day off of Living Social. EVERY company I have talked to that ran a Groupon or Living Social offer has liked it and ran more than once or is planning on running again. I was skeptical at first and was knocking it like most people in this room until I started calling people who did it and asked how it went for them and got real advice instead of what everyone thinks would happen out of it. I am making more money on my 3 areas for $50 ad where I get $25 and are averaging $55/house on top of that for an additional area cleaned or protector or a couch. Is there something wrong with going out and making $75 - $80 for a half hour or 45 minutes of work rather than staying home or spending money elsewhere where it may or may not work?
I dont intend for this to start a fight or anything but this is a forum where we are trying to help eachother make more money and I think people would like it if they tried it. You dont have to offer a whole house. We did 3 areas and sold 69 houses. Could we have sold 150-200 on a whole house deal, probably. I didnt think that would have been good for me as a company and would have put a lot of pressure to upsell furniture or other items. 3 areas cleaned or even 2 areas is so easy to get that extra area at full price. Most people are discounting their work to get in the door and if you are a really good cleaner you will get those extra areas cleaned or other items cleaned once they see your work.
Again, this is my opinion and I would suggest you ask the people that have DONE it and not just looked into it. I think it could help put some dollars in your pocket and its better for people to see your van cleaning than parked.
 

rhino1

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For a company that is just starting out and is fairly desperate for work, it might be OK. When I started out with a porty I would have been happy to work like a mule for a few bucks. Anyone who has been at this for a few years should be able to afford to advertise a reasonable price or discount and not have to resort to so called "Free" advertising like this scam. It would seem to make more sense to outlay a couple bucks for a better class of customer who is willing to pay enough for you to make a decent profit. Plus, these customers are yours if you do a good job, and are just as open to upselling and referring you to others - who won't expect you to work for free.
 

Brian R

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rhino1 said:
For a company that is just starting out and is fairly desperate for work, it might be OK. When I started out with a porty I would have been happy to work like a mule for a few bucks. Anyone who has been at this for a few years should be able to afford to advertise a reasonable price or discount and not have to resort to so called "Free" advertising like this scam. It would seem to make more sense to outlay a couple bucks for a better class of customer who is willing to pay enough for you to make a decent profit. Plus, these customers are yours if you do a good job, and are just as open to upselling and referring you to others - who won't expect you to work for free.


Did you read a thing he just said?

:roll:

Really good post Scott....but I've been trying not to say too much because it's getting saturated.
 

rhino1

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Yeah, DH. I read what he said, didn't make sense to me for a company with 5 or more years to be desperate enough to take jobs at a loss or break even point in the hopes that they would be used again or hopefully be able to upsell something to a cheapskate. The math in the post didn't make sense either.
 
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So after I wrote that post I went out for another Living Social job. It was for someone who bought the deal for a house they were buying. We cleaned 11 carpet rooms, cleaned and color sealed all of their tile. It was $1,000 job. The job we did this morning was $260. Would you call these people cheapskates? You are always going to have price shoppers but not all price shoppers are cheapskates. What really got me to try this is the fact that we are couponing and price shopping as a family to find good deals out there ourselves. Now I drive nice vehicles and live in a nice home and take my fair share of vacations with my family. I would not consider myself a cheapskate, just someone looking for a good deal when one comes around. Bill with Busy Bees who started this thread and I talked for quite some time tonight since we are friends and he said my area is a good area for this type of advertising. He made a good point on how some areas are just too large of areas to cover at the lower rates. My rep also worked hard for me to come up with a good promotion to where we could make more money and his would not. Like I said before, we do good quality work and this was our best way to get my business name out there on top of our word of mouth without coming out of pocket a lot of money. Our son has Down Syndrome and we incur a lot of medical costs so taking a chance with a few grand worth of advertising wasnt an option for me.
And for the record I have been in business for 5 years and by no means am desperate for work. We have doubles every year since we started and now have 3 vans on the road and a portable for certain high rise jobs we have. I just dont mind having more work come in and make more money to provide the most I can for my family. I am not desperate to take jobs at a loss or break even. I know I am going to make money on this since I talked to a lot of companies that did it and ran my promotion to the point where I could easily make more. If your not a good cleaner you wont make money because the customers will not pay you to do any extras for them. You can do what you want to do, I dont care. I was simply letting some people know this is something they may want to try. I was where you are with the whole this wont work. Then I started making some phone calls to people that did it and not talking to people that thought it wouldnt work. When I talked to them I was convinced it was worth trying it and I am glad I did. I just got set up with Groupon for next month and Living Social again in December. I think I have been a good smart business man so far so I will email you and let you know you were right if I go out of business after doing these deals.
 

floorguy

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uhhhh so was it a $1000 job done for $260???

or did you do 2 seperate jobs???
 

rhino1

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OK. So you did a $1K job for 260. Congrats. You'll never go out of business. There is a huge market for people who work for gas money.
 

Brian R

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rhino1 said:
OK. So you did a $1K job for 260. Congrats. You'll never go out of business. There is a huge market for people who work for gas money.

He did a $1k job AND a $260 job...I knew you didn't read the post. !dork! :lol:
 
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