So I am thinking I need a RE machine. Last year I cleaned a middle school (medium size private) and then got the got the church also. They do not want vlm and who am I to argue. I only HWE. I am doing the church again and they let me know they want it done every 6 months now and the school once a year. I’m done wanding the entire place. It’s not too bad on the light/medium soiled areas. But the heavy soiled areas are a beating. I started looking at the Bentley Pro but I don’t know if that would be that much quicker. Im considering the Rotovac 360xl or the T-Rex. I do very little commercial as of now. Those that are doing larger commercial jobs, what are you using? Seems like you can find good or bad reviews on all of the machines.
Rotovac 360xl or T-Rex or something else?
- Thread starter Lc17smp
- Start date
no, rotary extractors are a fad of the past.
get a zipper and or a helper
if it really needs agitation just bring an op w/ fiber , crb, cimex, ect
hogjowl
Idiot™
Depends on the carpet. I find rotary extraction to be hard to do on loop pile commercial carpet. On cut pile it out cleans everything but takes too long for most budgets. The Zipper is better than a wand but high flow alone often times is not enough. You may need agitation. If they don’t want VLM, then prescrub with a rotary and the appropriate pad/brush and then wand rinse, or Zipper if you have it.
It’s a shame “they” (I suspect it’s actually YOU) don’t want VLM because it shines in commercial maintenance.
It’s a shame “they” (I suspect it’s actually YOU) don’t want VLM because it shines in commercial maintenance.
Apparently the last 2 companies before I got the account were doing vlm. They didn’t want a quote if i wasnt going to HWE. I guess that’s why they called the O/O one van guy. Guess everyone else was smart enough to turn down HWE on a large church. Besides the soil from foot traffic there are lots of spills. Probably 100-200 on the lower main floor alone. Lots of French vanilla coffee. They tell me the vlm cleaning never really got it clean and spots were never really gone. I used approx 250 gallons of water to clean the lower floor alone. Very large church.
Hogjowl, what are the challenges with RE on loop pile commercial? Does the machine typically not run smoothly on loop? This carpet is loop.
Hogjowl, what are the challenges with RE on loop pile commercial? Does the machine typically not run smoothly on loop? This carpet is loop.
hogjowl
Idiot™
I too have a very large church that I have been maintaining for over 30 years. I clean some areas monthly, others quarterly and others semiannually. There’s only one area in the church that I never use vlm on and that is the sanctuary. Why? Not because vlm wouldn’t be useful, but because the sanctuary has a cut pile commercial carpet and I do not want to prematurely damage it with vlm and because the uniform V pattern left by HWE is so visually appealing to the membership that we routinely see it mentioned on Facebook and on line reviews. All the other areas are glue down commercial and we routinely vlm clean those areas with only an occasional HWE cleaning when necessary.
The challenge we often face running rotary extraction on commercial glue down is the machine skips and hops across the carpet catching the nap inconsistently. This causes poor extraction in those areas which cause you to have to use a wand to extract the excess water resulting in very poor production times. So if the job pays typical commercial rates, then your profit is impacted. However, those areas in which you RV and then follow behind with a wand are the cleanest you’ll ever see.
The challenge we often face running rotary extraction on commercial glue down is the machine skips and hops across the carpet catching the nap inconsistently. This causes poor extraction in those areas which cause you to have to use a wand to extract the excess water resulting in very poor production times. So if the job pays typical commercial rates, then your profit is impacted. However, those areas in which you RV and then follow behind with a wand are the cleanest you’ll ever see.
Mikey P
Administrator
9 out of 10 vlm folks are just as bad as 9 out of 10 hot water extraction folks, I could go in there and clean a hundred square feet with my vlm process and they would beg and plead me to do the rest of the place, I guarantee you...
Mikey P
Administrator
Your finger must be ready to fall off.
hogjowl
Idiot™
I’d type until hell froze over after you piss me off
Kenny Hayes
Member
If it were me, I’d use a Cimex to lay down oxy encap which will do the cleaning on the spots, then extract light rinse with the zipper to make them happy. They would never know how your doing it. The 360 is slow slow
in large areas. With the zipper there’s no electricity to deal with, so it’s pretty fast.
in large areas. With the zipper there’s no electricity to deal with, so it’s pretty fast.
Mikey P
Administrator
Mikey P
Administrator
That makes zero sense as the oxy encaps products need many* hours of exposure to do their magic
hogjowl
Idiot™
I’m only trying to give you positive feedback
hogjowl
Idiot™
And I’ve never noticed electricity slowing me down
Mikey P
Administrator
The best of men are men at best, but I appreciate your efforts, I think .
Living The Dream
Member
I have both the Rotovac 360XL and the Mytee T-Rex. They are both great machines.
When I bought my 360XL they gave me a Mikey's Board discount and upgraded my motor to a 3/4 HP. I use the nylon brush head with teflon glides. You can not adjust the speed on the 360XL, but I almost never get any hop out of it. If I do get hop it's because my handle is out of adjustment and is causing me to hold it awkward. I do one wet pass and then come back dry. My dry times are excellent.
With my TREX it comes standard with 1HP motor and adjustable speed. I have 3 different style heads for it. With proper speed adjustment and head selection I eliminate any hop. The only down fall to the TREX is not having an adjustable length handle. I'm 6' and it's a tad short to my liking. Dry times are also excellent.
I just did some rotary extraction for a commercial account that needed some serious TLC. I bid it at $1.00 a sq ft. They were so blown away by the results they scheduled reoccurring cleans.
The rotary extraction not only cleans the best, but it is an impressive presentation. I posted a video in a local FB group and it got a lot of attention and I booked several jobs from it.
When I use rotary extraction it's so much easier on my body and I'm way less fatigued.
The downfalls are that it is slower. You have to be disciplined or it's very easy to overwet the carpet. It's really sucks to use in any space that's not wide open. You'll use more water.
I hope this helps you make a decision.
Nate The Great
Member
The amount of crud, sand, grit, a rotary extractor will pull out of the carpet can't be matched.. Depending on your Truckmount or portable, hose run, all play a part.. I'd buy a Zipper over a Bentley pro or any other boner, Viet pos zipper wannabe.. I grew up on rotary extractors.. Less operator fatigue, but slower.. Zipper is great for commercial and large open areas.. You also get a free/extra dry pass with the movement..
Bottom line is what is the scope of work and time you have available and I'd go from there.. Any agitation prior to a wand, Zipper/drag tool will help to speed up the process bar none..
Bottom line is what is the scope of work and time you have available and I'd go from there.. Any agitation prior to a wand, Zipper/drag tool will help to speed up the process bar none..
Cleanworks
Moderator
You would be amazed at what a good orbital machine like the Trinity Phoenix or the HOS Sprayborg will do with the right chemistry. I've done large commercial areas with multiple coffee stains that have come right out using an Oxy-encap like Saiger's Code Red of Encaps. I use microfiber pads almost exclusively. I would do a sample area for them and let them judge it after that.
Many of you have forgotten more than I know about carpet cleaning. With that being said I try to continuously learn and improve at my trade. There is much I don’t know. VLM is a process I don’t know much about. I don’t doubt that vlm carpet cleaning can produce carpet that looks clean but where does all the soils / stains go? I went thru 500-600 gallons on that job and the water was almost black. Would I need 100 pads? 50? How does a pad floating on top of the surface flush out soils embedded down in the fibers? I know that HWE isn’t perfect either. I just can’t fathom how vlm gets anywhere near the soils out of the carpet hwe does. Probably sounds like I’m anti-vlm. I need to find a local company who is good at it and see if I can go along for a day or two. I’m sure my local competitors will be eager to share their knowledge. lol. I’d love to go behind a vlm cleaning with hwe and see how the water looks.
Kenny Hayes
Member
First of all the oxy is for the coffee stains. Actually I would use encap punch for the rest
of the carpet and extract with the zipper. As AI says, sorry for the confusion
Kenny Hayes
Member
If you use a crb with renovators, you’d be surprised how much dirt is removed even after vacuuming. After using them, you can vlm with whatever method (pad or bonnet) and get awesome results. Most of my cleaning is in that church, school environment. I use vlm more than any other.
Cleanworks
Moderator
You have to forget this business of where does the dirt go. Doesn't matter if the carpet looks clean. In my experience so far, buildings that I have switched to encap from hwe, look cleaner and stay cleaner. These are all mainly glue down carpet or carpet tiles. The key to success is thorough vacuuming, using good equipment and chemistry and taking your time. Dirt is removed by vacuuming, absorption into your pads and absorption into your chemistry which crystalizes and traps any remaining soil that gets vacuumed out by the customers regular maintenance. I know it sounds like a fairy tale but it really does work.
hogjowl
Idiot™
Not true. You need to have standards and keeping the fact that the soil needs to actually be removed occasionally will keep you from losing and account over the long run.
Cleanworks
Moderator
The soil does get removed but not all at once.
Nate The Great
Member
Encap is and has always been an interim carpet maintenance system.. An appearance cleaning method used between HWE flushing.. "Most use it out of context" or are in their senior years and don't want to pull hose.. Even Rickie of ExcellentSupply says the carpet needs to be flushed out periodically.. YMMV..
While HWE will pull more soil out, the wicking is something you'll always contend with. And are you making enough for the follow-up visit to encap/pad the areas that wicked? Every tool has its place and knowing when to use it in the right context is what separates you from the pack.. Appearance cleaning isn't cleaning the whole fiber, it's cleaning the top portion to "make it appear to look better".. As for the pads, based on your light/medium soil areas you could get about 200-400sf per pad.. HWE the heavily soiled areas.. If they go for it..
You shouldn't sell the method, just sell clean carpet.. I know they most likely had negative experiences in the past regarding VLM/bonnet cleaning..
While HWE will pull more soil out, the wicking is something you'll always contend with. And are you making enough for the follow-up visit to encap/pad the areas that wicked? Every tool has its place and knowing when to use it in the right context is what separates you from the pack.. Appearance cleaning isn't cleaning the whole fiber, it's cleaning the top portion to "make it appear to look better".. As for the pads, based on your light/medium soil areas you could get about 200-400sf per pad.. HWE the heavily soiled areas.. If they go for it..
You shouldn't sell the method, just sell clean carpet.. I know they most likely had negative experiences in the past regarding VLM/bonnet cleaning..
Mikey P
Administrator
Not true, and based on your ignorance of a proper padding process.
Microfiber followed by cotton blends will make and keep any floor owner or manager happy, no matter how much you don't want to accept that truth.
Mikey P
Administrator
He said that when "we" were using Cimexes.
Your old man-ness is showing Nate.
Microfiber has changed our world, adopt or die.
Wicking is becoming a thing of the past with today's commercial carpet tiles that have a rubber backing. When the HWE process is properly done, how can anything possibly wick up? I never get callbacks on that type of carpet that's replacing the old commercial
Kenny Hayes
Member
Can we all agree that HWE is seriously needed with puke in a pew
Also a good
portable wet vac is a plus as well
Also a good portable wet vac is a plus as well
hogjowl
Idiot™
All of you morons are stupid
