Silly question about my Cluth drive tm

[joey895]

For as long as I've had this van the temp doesn't go above about 160-170 degrees. I'm talking about the engine coolant temp and cleaning water temp both read about the same. Once it gets up to that temp it stays there constantly with very little fluctuation.

Back when I first got the van I assumed it must be a thermostat stuck open so I installed a 205 degree stat but it made no change.

I've just been living with it but now I have a small coolant leak so while I'm fixing this leak I'm taking the opportunity to revisit the temp issues and it dawned on me that maybe the problem is the stat was installed backwards?

I know how to install one normally but I don't know if it's different on the direct drive? The first two pictures is how it would normally be installed depending on if it goes before or after the return line that runs back to the machine? When I got the van it was installed like the first picture.

I'm also open to other ideas that could be causing the lower temps? Yes, I have bled the heat exchanges and descaled but I never thought that was the issue anyway seeing as how my engine is also running cooler than it should.

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Ps It's a white magic pro-1200 if that matters

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Pss I just dropped the stat in boiling water and it did open.

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[idreadnought]

I honestly don't think that if it is installed backwards that it would cause it to open to soon. I would try descaling. You also might have a faulty temp gauge. 170 seems too low. In theory without flow the temp should reach around 200 even with a very inefficient heat exchange system. Depending on flow during triggering the wand this temp would go down

 

[joey895]

I honestly don't think that if it is installed backwards that it would cause it to open to soon. I would try descaling. You also might have a faulty temp gauge. 170 seems too low. In theory without flow the temp should reach around 200 even with a very inefficient heat exchange system. Depending on flow during triggering the wand this temp would go down

The problem is the van coolant temp never goes above 170 so there is no way the cleaning water can be heated any hotter.

Do you know if the stat goes above the machine return line in the pics or below it?

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[FB19087]

edit..nm..that is wrong.

wasn't thinking...that is the return from the HE...first pic correct

 

[bob vawter]

the coolant system water is hottest at the stat jus before the radiator.........(it has jus ran thru the whole engine) sooooooooo it SHOULD go straight to the HX first......then return to the heater core......

 

[FB19087]

thats what I was thinking at first Bob...but

 

[joey895]

Pic 1 is how it was installed.

To try something different I just installed it like pic 2.

I haven't ran it yet should I bother trying or are you very confident its pic 1?

I went ahead and changed the coolant temp sensor while I had it apart but I done see how that could actually, physically make it run cooler.

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[FB19087]

Pic 1 is correct.

Pic 2 would dump the returning water directly to the radiator.......

 

[joey895]

As I'm sitting here looking at it, With the stat above the return line (pic 1)the water from the exchanger is being dumped straight back into the engine by passing the stat. It seems to me that having it set up in pic 2 makes sense because the stat is then regulating the temp of all the water from the radiator and the heat exchanger?



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[joey895]

Pic 1 is correct.

Pic 2 would dump the returning water directly to the radiator.......

OK I'll switch it, thanks.

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[FB19087]

Its not bypassing the stat. The stat is designed to open once the water in the engine reaches the spec tstat temp allowing it to flow through the radiator to be cooled.

Pic 2 would come in above the stat making it flow through the radiator.

Pic 1 allows the returning (cooled) coolant to return to the engine to be heated allowing it to reach the tstat opening temp

 

[joey895]

I just found my schematic. It appears white magic suggests pic 2. Check out #44

View attachment 1246

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[FB19087]

That is what made more sense to me when I originally posted but then I looked at the manuals I have....and second guessed it

go by your manual/schematic

 

[bob vawter]

that's why i always preferred a Ford setup.......there is a nipple jus BEFORE the stat housing......

 

[Dan]

Picture 2 is definitely correct. You want all bypassing stopped until van comes up to temp according to thermostat. BTW... You have got to use anti freeze or you will have bigger problems soon. Everything is getting eaten up.

 

[Dan]

another thing. I would look at how White Magic ran everything and make sure YOU like it... White Magic Engineers... strike that.... White Magic Monkeys were of the dumbest of all breeds. The very hottest water to send to the HX is that coming from the motor and wanting to go back to the radiator thru the top hose, or, that bypass line next to your thermostat. Call me if I can be of any help.

 

[joey895]

Well good news after screwing this most of the day is I think my leak is fixed, I don't know for sure because it got dark on me. Other goods news is after taking the t-stat in and out three times today I'm really good at it know.

Bad news is its still not running up to temp. Only other thing I can think of is maybe the fan clutch is keeping the fan engaged too much, although it doesn't seem like that would be enough to keep it that cool.

Guess the only way I'm gonna get any heat is to buy a little giant.

And yes I know I need coolant in it but its had a hard to find leak for a while now and I couldn't afford to keep adding coolant every few days.

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[Lee Stockwell]

On our chevy v8's we installed high flow aftermarket water pumps and also 1" hydraulic hoses from the engine to the HX.

 

[Dan]

Not the fan clutch.

 

[Dan]

Did you replace the thermostat? Put a pot of water on stove and put thermostat in and bring to boil. Check when thermostat opens and make sure it properly closes while cooling down.

 

[FB19087]

Dan beat me to it.....

 

[joey895]

Not the fan clutch.

Any other suggestions?

Today I got the 205 degree t-stat installed correctly and I verified it was opening and closing before installing it. I changed the coolant temp sensor. I bled all air out of heat exchangers and vans cooling system. All that and the temp is still running the same as before.

I'm stumped and when I ask a mechanic they just can't grasp why in the world I would want it to run warmer.

Lee,

How would hi flow water pump and 1inch hose help it run warmer?

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[joey895]

radiator cap?

somebody put stop leak in it? (wouldn't really explain the low eng temp)

Oh I forgot that. I put a new radiator cap on it today as well.

I did drop the t-stat in boiling water and it did open and then close when I took it out.

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[joey895]

I guess I'm going to order another t-stat and change it for the 4th time in a couple of days.

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[Lee Stockwell]

Any other suggestions?

Today I got the 205 degree t-stat installed correctly and I verified it was opening and closing before installing it. I changed the coolant temp sensor. I bled all air out of heat exchangers and vans cooling system. All that and the temp is still running the same as before.

I'm stumped and when I ask a mechanic they just can't grasp why in the world I would want it to run warmer.

Lee,

How would hi flow water pump and 1inch hose help it run warmer?

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In our case we were heating a 150 gallon ss fresh water tank. The engine's factory water pump didn't move the water nearly as well as the new one ( $70 at AutoZone).

The bigger diameter hose likewise allowed more heat to be transported more quickly.

 

[Dolly Llama]

[h=2][/h]

For as long as I've had this van the temp doesn't go above about 160-170 degrees
​

Hillbilly Hank's tip of the day;

cover the radiator with a piece of cardboard for a few minutes ....see what happens
adjust the size of cardboard for desired temp.
carry several size cardboard "t-stats" to adjust temps with different flow rates

Ie..empties and wide open com where the wand will be running nearly wide open
mid flow like res with many stops to tab and block
or lo-flo when cleaning upl

That's on pg 227 in Hillbilly Hank's Michanix Shop Manual


..L.T.A.

 

[joey895]

Hehe, I covered about 1/3 of the radiator with card board after the last fail. I've got a few pieces I'll take with me tomorrow to see how it goes. I'm also going to see if I can borrow a infrared thermometer so I can see the temps of the hoses.

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[FB19087]

that's why i always preferred a Ford setup.......there is a nipple jus BEFORE the stat housing......

that is pretty much how my Pro2000 was. The Tstat was removed at the manifold and a had a tee in the upper radiator hose feeding the heat exchangers. After that it gad an inline tstat in the radiator hose (really just two straight tstat housings together).

but it was old as hell when I got it so I have know idea if that was how it was supposed to be ..............


returned to heater core hose

 

[Dan]

What temp is the machine getting? We have to narrow the search. The truck wants to keep cool and the machine wants the hottest hot source. You either have a bad temp sending unit or hoses not correctly hooked up on the truck. Otherwise the truck is fine and you need to look at the machine. The only thing that would keep the truck running cool would be the thermostat stuck open. Don't waste money on rad caps, water pumps or anything else because those would fall under the overheating issues. Here is what you need to do:

check the true temp of the engine coolant at operating temp.. Splice in a real gauge somewhere for temporary testing.

check and tell me the true temp of machine totoo what year white mamagic what year truck?

I would also like to know if part 44 is part of the original van design or part of the white magic.

 

[FB19087]

Dan,

44 on his diagram is the Tstat...is that what you meant?

and I was thinking the same thing about the plumbing being wrong....there just isn't much to a cooling system....so the low temp problem (if there is one) would almost have to be a routing problem

edit: and since he seems to have acquired that becomes more likely if a problem was "fixed" in the past



on another note I'm really starting to doubt the WM manuals..............