please tell me how hi PH attracts soil

Dolly Llama

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I hear many say, leaving a carpet at high PH causes resoil issues.

please tell me how and why PH in and of it's self can attract soil?


..L.T.A.
 

Jim Pemberton

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Asking about high pH makes the question difficult to answer Larry. pH is one measurement of the strength of a chemical, but rarely do you find one single component that reads a high pH alone on a textile.

If a single chemical component, such as trisodium phosphate, was present on carpet, it in itself would likely not cause resoiling. Chemicals such as sodium hydroxide or sodium metasilicate might cause color loss on acid dyed textiles, such as nylon or wool, however.

Most resoiling occurs from surfactant residue, and as surfactants are often used in cleaning formulations that have alkaline components, one could then say such a residue could attract soil.

Of course, an acid based detergent, such as might be used to clean upholstery or natural fiber rugs could also cause resoiling based on the residue of the surfactant, not the pH of the residue.

Shawn Forsythe will likely answer the question in a more technically correct fashion, but the above explanation has been what I've experienced.
 

Larry Cobb

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Larry;

In spite of your "Honda" comment from a couple of days ago.....

"pH" itself does not cause resoiling.

Certain raw materials DO cause resoiling.

They can be of any pH.

A few high pH raw materials are difficult to rinse...
and thereby cause resoiling.

In general surfactants are the most common resoilers.

Quat surfactants are the worst of the commonly used types in carpet cleaning.

Larry
 

GeneMiller

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once it's dry ph is irrelevant because ph is a measurement for water. If the products you leave behind are sticky then they will be the cause of the resoiling. It's easy to test your products. Take a small amount and place them on a plastic or glass plate. Let them dry and see if they feel sticky. Ideally they should get dry and brittle.

Gene
 
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Jim Pemberton said:
Shawn Forsythe will likely answer the question in a more technically correct fashion, but the above explanation has been what I've experienced.


Jim, you worded it perfectly. I can't think of anything to change that would add anything of value to the answering of the question.
 

Greenie

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I will add, the only reason we were ever taught to try and return a carpet to neutral via an acid side rinsing agent, was for the Protection we were about to apply.

My question is, do all protectors do better on a slightly acidic textile, or does it not much matter with some?
 
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Greenie said:
My question is, do all protectors do better on a slightly acidic textile, or does it not much matter with some?

All protectors? No.

However, those that contain and use acid dye blockers are going to be a problem with high pH residues. First, acid dye blockers (normally colorless), can yellow in the presence of strong alkali. That alone would give good reason to neutralize or even acidify the fibers. As well, these dyes are designed to set in an acidic environment. Having a strong alkali residue won't be amenable to that.

But the use of a a good acidic rinse is not merely to define the pH state, but also to clear the fiber of other contaminants of cleaning, such as surfactant residue. Although there are quite a bit of rinse agents out there that suffer handily in regard to minimizing these residues.
 

Jim Martin

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Mr SunShine said:
I hear many say, leaving a carpet at high PH causes resoil issues.

please tell me how and why PH in and of it's self can attract soil?


..L.T.A.



Its not about what you put down.........its all about what you leave behind.....
 

Ron Werner

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Greenie said:
I will add, the only reason we were ever taught to try and return a carpet to neutral via an acid side rinsing agent, was for the Protection we were about to apply.

My question is, do all protectors do better on a slightly acidic textile, or does it not much matter with some?

I thought the reason was because most cleaning solutions are alkaline, by leaving the carpet on the acid side, it meant the cleaning soln has been either rinsed away or neutralized.
It would also help stabilize the dyes.
 

Dolly Llama

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Ed said:
So, to summarize and answer you question in short form, "it don't".

indeed

and i already knew that.

I just get tired of hearing the same dumb myth repeated that if carpets aren't left PH neutral they'll resoil faster.

I'm guessing that myth continually gets perpetuated by the acid rinse crowd

Larry;

In spite of your "Honda" comment from a couple of days ago..Larry;

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Don't sweat it, Larry.
You're all right with me.
Les is too, even though he might of been a bit bummed about my thoughts/comments about cheap mufflers on TMs.

nothing against DOO-Wayne and his coupler bustin' back yard builds

and I'm reasonably sure I won't be getting hugs and kisses from Steve "pee-ess" Toburen either.

hell, I even love Yappy York too
(no Yappy, NOT in a Dannie way)
and I've busted his balls pretty hard over the years


..L.T.A.
 

rhyde

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pH is a measure of hydrogen+ and hydroxyl- ions in solution ..actually pH is a shitty way to measure hydrogen and hydroxyl ions it doesn’t tell you the power of the hydrogen and hydroxyl ions in solution the ..PKA is a measure of their power….

Yet I digress, the majority of household soils are acidic so leaving a textile alkaline favors
Attraction of negative soil to – to positive+ or static charge when dry by Ionic bond and covalent bonding. I would be less concerned with the pH attracting soils as a would the damage caused to the integrity of dyes and acidic fibers such as wool left alkaline for long periods of time
 

Dolly Llama

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rhyde said:
Yet I digress, the majority of household soils are acidic so leaving a textile alkaline favors
Attraction of negative soil to – to positive+ or static charge when dry by Ionic bond and covalent bonding.


I'm glad someone mentioned that.
Dr Aziz says they're alkaline, NOT acid as is commonly suggested .
he went on to explain how/why alkaline detergents were still best to clean alkaline soils, but that's when he started talking in major geek language and my eyes glazed over


..L.T.A.
 

Ed

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Another great myth: "When the economy is bad, people clean their carpets more! So you'd be a nut NOT to buy this $50,000 van and machine. You'll make the payment in 1/2 a day. The rest of the month is gravy!"
 

hogjowl

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Shawn Forsythe said:
[quote="Jim Pemberton":33jqxtje]Shawn Forsythe will likely answer the question in a more technically correct fashion, but the above explanation has been what I've experienced.


Jim, you worded it perfectly. I can't think of anything to change that would add anything of value to the answering of the question.[/quote:33jqxtje]

OMG!

I never considered it freakin POSSIBLE!
 

Ron Werner

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getting these 2 threads mixed up

I mentioned in the other thread that its becoming more laziness in stating the situation properly.
Its not that high pH attracts soil, but moreso, high pH is an indication that there may be residue on the carpet which will attract soil.
 

Larry Cobb

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GeneMiller said:
once it's dry ph is irrelevant because ph is a measurement for water. If the products you leave behind are sticky then they will be the cause of the resoiling. It's easy to test your products. Take a small amount and place them on a plastic or glass plate. Let them dry and see if they feel sticky. Ideally they should get dry and brittle.

Gene

The is NOT a valid test because of the RINSEABILITY FACTOR.

Some raw materials rinse very easily....

Some raw materials do not rinse well at all.

The final pass of the wand is a RINSE pass.

Larry
 

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