please help seeing spots after cleaning?

[cbcsi]

I recently cleaned an area of offices, and hallway in the executive area of a clients building. It was a Commercial glue down. We used a portable extractor presprayed a traffic lane cleaner (not high high PH maybe 9ish) using a hf sprayer extracted using hot water. We were in a hurry because the staff that were having to babysit were going to end up after 5 o'clock and the faces were long. Anyhow the next morning one of the execs said what are those spots??. irregular roundish spots. He swears they weren't there before. I wasn't sure what he was looking at until it was pointed out. I sent someone up to checked them with a moisture meter and maybe found a little moisture on one of them but not on the rest. They didn't want me to try to do anything with the spots at the moment because they had big meetings and Company coming.

About 2 months later they call me and I set up a day to go back up there. to me the spots looked more visible so I thought maybe there was some soap residue resoiling or maybe wicking. I came through and recleaned it same way as before but slower. lots of rinsing and lots of dry vaccing. I would say no residue to speak of now for sure. When I left I couldn't see the spots but, a few days later they are calling me again. I haven't been back yet but I assume the spots are still there.

They seem to see these spots only in the hallway. I am beginning to wonder if the pattern of the carpet isn't showing darker patches in irregular patterns and for some reason they see it in the hallway.

This thing has got me nervous because I am sure they would have put some overpriced carpet in there exec. area along with all the overpriced furnishings. I don't want to end up with a claim, or an alienated customer that thinks I did something to their carpet. I will do a test to be sure, but I do not believe it is wool, just old fashioned oil loving oliefin.

What would you guys suggest I try first. As far as I know it has only once been cleaned with HWE the one time since it was installed 4-6 years ago. As far as I know it hasn't been brushed, or bonneted. They do have an in house jaitor though that may have done either.

How can spots magically appear after cleaning and then never go away? I can't see wicking being an issue, but I don't know what else can cause something to look different after it is cleaned??

 

[sweendogg]

What would you guys suggest I try first. As far as I know it has only once been cleaned with HWE the one time since it was installed 4-6 years ago. As far as I know it hasn't been brushed, or bonneted. They do have an in house jaitor though that may have done either.

How can spots magically appear after cleaning and then never go away? I can't see wicking being an issue, but I don't know what else can cause something to look different after it is cleaned??

From your description, that is a textbook case of wicking, especielly if its Olefin. If you spill any large amount of liquid on an olefin carpet, the fibers will shead the water faster than you can spit and all the crud goes right the backing and is protected from any surface cleaning. You could rinse and rinse the piss out but you have a couple of problems. The commercial glue down carpet does not lend itself well to subsurface flushing like a water claw. The backing glue and sometimes the subfloor will soak in all that crap. You could try rinsing with an acid rinse, but you already mentioned that rinsing it didn't keep them away. This is an opportunity where a low moisture system such as encapslation or bonnet cleaning using an encapsulating detergent would shine.

There are several good products to choose from including Releasit, Vac-away, CTI's brush bonnet. But light spray the area, work in with a pad or bonnet and speed dry. This is what I would do and have done in these situations.

 

[Ron Werner]

are they in a regular pattern, scattered/random, linear?
How many are there? If not too many go at them with a hand tool, that will flush them out real well and not leave them over wet.

 

[cbcsi]

"are they in a regular pattern, scattered/random, linear?
How many are there?"

From my memory (a couple of weeks now) they are maybe 6-8 ft apart the spots kinda look like where a man walked down the hallway with something on his shoes and left behind some sort of stain more to one side than the other but not a precise pattern. here and there a spot more in the middle. I would guess the hallway in question runs maybe forty or fifty feet long and the are seeing six or seven maybe eight spots (right down the hallway).

 

[cbcsi]

If it is wicking, (for a test). Would I be able to transfer the dirt onto a white towel with just an Alkaline spotter or TLC in a squirt bottle? I didn't mention it before that we were using an hf sprayer that sometimes doesn't work worth a krapp. I thought that maybe we had just gotten too much Traffic lane cleaner, but when I went back over it I didn't find gobs of soap suds.

I figure I'll take a couple of the spots and see if I get any color transfer to indicate that there might actually be dirt or whatever wicking back. First an alkaline spotter, then an acid spotter, is that right guys?. If neither one moves the spot onto the white towel what next?

 

[sweendogg]

If it is wicking, (for a test). Would I be able to transfer the dirt onto a white towel with just an Alkaline spotter or TLC in a squirt bottle? I didn't mention it before that we were using an hf sprayer that sometimes doesn't work worth a krapp. I thought that maybe we had just gotten too much Traffic lane cleaner, but when I went back over it I didn't find gobs of soap suds.

I figure I'll take a couple of the spots and see if I get any color transfer to indicate that there might actually be dirt or whatever wicking back. First an alkaline spotter, then an acid spotter, is that right guys?. If neither one moves the spot onto the white towel what next?

It doesn't have to be soap residue that causes the wicking, it could be the residue from whatever has seeped into the carpet that has migrated to the surface after as it dried and only became noticable when it began to resoil over time. As much as you said you flushed it and it still returned, you should have eliminated the possibility of soap residue left in the carpet.

The only downfall is that you are getting raked over the coals for their problem. If y ou are going to do some testing, I would use an encap spotter. If you don't have any encap products, get a free sample pack from vac away. All the spotters are encap style, and you get a few encap detergents, presprays and shampoos as well to try out. There would be enough in one of the shampoos or detergents to use on your hallway should you decide to encap pad it.

The link is

http://vacaway.com/samplepack/

I think you only have to pay the shipping.

 

[Ron Werner]

if they are in that pattern, I would lean more to something on one foot as someone walked down the hall. So now its just a matter of rinsing out what got left behind.
Maybe it was gum and the maintenance people used citrus to get the gum out. It can leave a nasty residue that's hard to remove. I was cleaning a house and tried some citrus on some spots, first time in 8yrs that the spots were really nasty to rinse. They were well rinsed but left the carpet dark where I applied the citrus.

 

[GeneMiller]

Just a thought, look straight up, do the spots line up with high hats. clean carpets reflects light better. I've had to return because of a spot on a mirror that reflected into the carpet.

Gene

 

[Greenie]

The GreenTheory:

The Janitor has avail. to him a bonnet, and occasionally "freshens up" the carpet, with or without the owner/managers knowledge.

Said Janitor also has a bottle of spotter he uses from time to time.

When he bonnets, the topical clean nature removes enough "spotter" and has a low enough mositure level that it' doesn't wick.

When you "extracted" with your porty, you left the carpet much wetter, maybe made worse by your hurried approach from outside stress to get done quick.

Which porty did you use? pump pressure?
Which wand? number of jets?
Glides
Air movers?

Why no rinse agent in your porty tank?

Solution: Bonnet or OP the area with a quality encap chem, force dry, then peek into Janitor's closet for the offender.

 

[harryhides]

Stop the guesswork and do some serious testing - it's really not that hard.
you'll need:
Eye dropper
Distilled water, bottled will do.
Bone spatula
Ph paper
Clean white cotton towels
Iso-propyl acohol
An alkaline and an acid spotter.

Wet out 2 small areas - one where there is a "spot" and one where there isn't.
Test both for pH, agitate and test both for evidence of residue ie sudsing.
Take pictures.
Pick 3 new "spot" areas and three new non "spot" areas test one of each with some Iso on a towel rub the spot and see how much soil was transferred to the towel.
Repeat with acid and alkaline spotters on remaining 4 areas. If you use non-sudsing "spotters" for your testing even better ie vinegar (acid) and non-sudsing ammonia (alkaline).

If your problem is oil or grease - you will get zero pH reading, zero sudsing and the most transfer of soil where you tested with Iso.
If it is soap residue, you will get a higher pH reading, lots of sudsing and good results where you tested with an acid spotter.
If you get the same pH readings or same amount sudsing on "spot" areas as well as anywhere else then your problem is not residue or wicking. Could be lighting or crushing or alien activity.

Whichever spotter gets the most transfer of soil is the product to use to fix this problem. Finish up with heavy towelling and then an encapsulant.
The pictures will be useful in restoring your credibilty with this customer.