ok roger "leather god" i finally got one i can do...

[davegillfishing]

after a bunch of pics and questions i finally have a piece that i can do..
this is a sofa that a customer gave me because she was going to toss it..
so this is a piece that is in my garage and ready to be played with, i cant wait to
get this done so i can start pushing this service to my customers..i just needed to do one
before i really pushed it..
here are the pics
if you can tell me what i need and how much of it i need a little direction and i will get started..
thanks
by the way...we want to paint it light brown

 

[Ron Lippold]

ease up on those finger nails

 

[Mikey P]

No kidding.

Damn Gill those are disgusting. What the hell are you so stressed about that you would chew on yourself that much?


I can tell you this, you'll have to sand down that cracked leather, bondo it and air brush the color back.
I taught Tony how to do this so I'll let him pay it back to you.

 

[harryhides]

I can tell you this, you'll have to sand down that cracked leather, bondo it and air brush the color back.
I taught Tony how to do this so I'll let him pay it back to you.

That's old news Mikey.

Dave will need to first of all clean with some scotchbrite pads and rinse the whole piece.
Then apply some Hydrator and cover with saran-wrap overnight for several days.
Then repeat the same process with fatliquor.

This will close up a lot of the cracks that were caused by the leather having dried out.
Once that process has been completed the remaining cracks and nicks can be be filled with leather filler and sanded,

Then you can start to airbrush or pad on the color coat.
I would not advise a color change because on the outside back and sides you will be coloring over the old top coat and so it may not bond well enough.
Roger does have a great product called "Adhesion" that may overcome this problem but since I have stopped offering color change services I do not know if this would work.

 

[The Preacher]

Call Looonie McDonald, i think Breevik has his # on speed dial!!!

 

[harryhides]

Thanks Danny.
That reminds of something that I'd like Dave to do for me and for everyone here that reads this.
There are some that think that taking a Leather Cleaning course is all that you need to "get into Leather as another service for your business.

Dave, what I'd like you to do is to take a few pictures, both "with" and "without" flash.
Mark the floor with a piece of masking tape right where the front of your feet are when taking the pics - this is so that the "after" pics will be, as close as possible, to identical.
It would be great if you could have a ruler or two in the picture also.
Also take a few close ups of the same area.

After you have taken the pics, I'd like you to go ahead and clean those cushions or the whole piece, then let them dry for a day and then take a set of "after" pics.

Please take note of the time this the cleaning took you to complete.
I'm guessing that the result will be much the same or worse than before you started. Then we can talk about how much that service would be worth to a customer and how it could affect your reputation as a Professional.

 

[Roger Koh]

Thanks for the message.

So you wish to transform your sofa like this 15 year old piece into a 15 hour old piece as shown in these pictures.

#1: Before

#2: After

Before I talk about the refinishing system, let’s see what spraying system you have?


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

 

[davegillfishing]

the only thing i have to spray with is the compressor but i will go get/rent/buy what is needed to do the job.
if needed i have access to a large compressor as the one i have is a 5 gallon 1hp
dave

 

[Roger Koh]

See if you can get a gun like this:

It’s a Devilbiss with three controls for 1] pattern, 2] flow and 3] air.

Then match up to a compressor that you need – needless to say the bigger the tank the better.

Practice it and you will be ready how to manipulate the three controls to give the best performance.

And I used one each for the color and topcoat until the job is done.

This modified model is obsolete.

However it’s the same gun ever since I started doing refinishing in the mid ‘80’s.

I have also tried many other guns (cheap) but became expensive since it has their problems.

If you don’t like the functionality of spray gun on your hand, you are already defeated.

And if you want to save on this workhorse, refinishing will be a drag.

It will kill your motivation to look out for more jobs.

So let’s see how your enthusiasm goes!

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

 

[Lyman]

Are you making fun of dave or do you just drink the fatliquor to make it look better.

 

[Roger Koh]

Are you making fun of dave or do you just drink the fatliquor to make it look better.

Let's call it an A & A test if you wish!

And you are welcome to join in too!

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

 

[davegillfishing]

i must be really stupid or i am missing something..i dont understand lymans question or your answer to him..

anyhow i have a buddy that custom paints motorcycles and does some incredible painting on them..
i will call him tomorrow to point me in the right direction for the sprayer..

next

 

[Roger Koh]

Don’t worry about side entertainment – get the right tools first and practice if you like it especially the spray guns.

Next is sanding tools – one for detailing and one for general surface as shown.

It’s preferably used one that has speed control.

And sanding disc for the oscillating sander – get the 1000, 1200 and 1500 sanding grade.

Have you decided on colors yet?


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

 

[davegillfishing]

got the sanding tools already..i will pick up the sandpaper tomorrow...
so do i just start like it is a car till all the finish is off, stop when it is down to bare leather
or do i want to scuff the leather as well?

we want to go really dark brown, almost black but not black.
thanks

oh and i will not worry about all the side comments, i just wanted to make sure i was not missing something that i shouldn't be missing..
i am going to be playing with the spray guns this weekend and will see what i end up with..my buddy is going to let me borrow one before i buy.

 

[harryhides]

Dave, if you are going to use a sander may I suggest that start off by wrapping the sandpaper around a sponge ( remove any rings from you hands ) and begin by sanding by hand just to get a feel for it. Whenever you are sanding start with a medium grit and go light. You can always move to a coarser grit and a heavier hand. We do a lot of sanding by hand. If the leather is really brittle, thin or dried out, be very careful as you don't want to rip s new hole in a cushion. Roger has products that will re-hydrate the leather and strengthen it's structure.

Good luck and take lots of pictures for your future brochures and web-site - you can always delete them if you screw up.

 

[davegillfishing]

will do thanks for the tip..
dave

 

[Roger Koh]

Here is the General Structure of Leather Refinishing:

1. Prep Cleaning
2. Leather Structure Rejuvenating
3. Impregnation
4. Repairs
5. Adhesion Coat
6. Color Coat
7. Top Coat
8. Feel Coat
9. Quality Control

And here are some reasons why the need for such details.

Leather upholstery refinishing must return the leather to practical use for the next 3 – 5 years at least without major failure to its leather structure and its finishing.

Failure to the leather structure result in cracking and failure to the finishes result in peeling, poor wet and dry rubs that result in premature wear.

The leather structure is where the strength and suppleness lies and especially non-absorbent leathers that become absorbent especially on wear areas and micro-cracks need special attention to “rejuvenate” them.

These areas can be easily be identified by the darkening effect once the leather is prep clean during the rinse process.

Needless to say by the look of these cushions, they qualify to be rejuvenated, impregnated and repair unlike the remaining parts of the sofa.

The final test to the cushion need an “Adhesion Test or commonly known as the Scotch Tape Test” and for me I prefer to use the 2” industrial strength tape to press it down tight and pull to see the strength of adhesion. And if it fails on the worst piece of cushion the whole system has to be re-evaluated before processing the rest of the cushion and frame. So we only go ahead on the worst cushion and test it out even flexing the finish leather if it is supple enough and don’t look too “plastiky”.

So besides the “Adhesion”, I do the “Compressibility”, “Stretchability” and “Flexibility” test.

For leather refinishing it’s better to check thrice and do once to avoid the recall.

The customer is made known of these quality control so that we can provide with a three years warranty.

So he knows service like this call for a Premium price.

It is the saving over buying new furniture that he will consider rejuvenating and refinishing cheap.

Other than that it is not a win-win situation and may cause our reputation.


The subject on Color:

Tony advice against a color change for fear of adhesion failure, but he also knows that it can be overcome with an adhesion coat prior to the color coat.

The other reason is more colors need to be sprayed to block off the base color thus builds up the total micron-thickness that do affect the aesthetic look.

When the finish is scratch or abraded the old colors may be revealed.

That’s why the higher grade Micro-Pigmented or Semi-Aniline leathers have the reverse same color as the face.

And it is micro-pigmented to provide a more natural look.

We seldom see semi-aniline leathers which are micro-pigmented crack, as we see more standard-pigmented leathers cracking.

So, in this situation if the original color is retained I would recommend to be refinished in “Micro-Pigment”.

If color change is preferred to fit into existing interior color scheme than using the “Standard-Pigment” is the way to go.


What do you think?


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

 

[davegillfishing]

makes sense..i am going to start sanding on the nastiest cushion tomorrow and see what happens..i will post pics.
thanks for taking the time.
dave

 

[Roger Koh]

Do the one cushion as you please for comparison of system approach and do mark to identify it.


Leave one cushion and try out with this recommended approach.

Prep Cleaning:
1. Examine the existing condition of finishes by giving it a 2” Scotch-Tape test.
2. This test will determine whether the entire finish is to be removed to the crust or partially.
3. Prep clean it with a pH 7.7 prep cleaner by application, horsehair brush agitation and spreading it as thin as possible with an even coverage and let dwell overnight.
4. Clean off suspended contamination with a pH 3.8 cleaner and rinse with a pH 3.0 rinse.
5. This is where our decision to remove the existing finishes begins after rinsing.
6. If the Scotch-Tape test reveal that the finish have to go, it may be easier to remove it clean with a leather Razor by hand in combination with spray rinse.
7. Otherwise the existing finish will be partially wet sand without hurting the leather crust.
8. Note: While the leather crust is acidified with a pH 3.0 rinse, it’s cationize and is stronger than dry and have less chance from being hurt than if it is dry. Do not remove any damage leather at this stage; leave it for the repair stage.

Leather Rejuvenating:
1. Hydrate the leather structure with a pH 3.3 hydrator as Tony have experienced and recommended; besides it will tighten up the over-stretch cushion making it look smarter.
The function of the hydrator is two folds, first it helps to facilitate colloidal water movement within the leather structure capillary motion during the wicking process.
And second it hydrate dried or stiff leathers to separates the crushed, stick together fibrils and relax them.
2. The procedure is to facilitate the leather soaking up the hydrator, and covering it up with tissue paper, towel than plastic wrapped to control evaporation and leave to dwell overnight to relax the leather structure.
3. The plastic is removed to allow the wicking process to take place; here is where the extended tissue paper leather surface will trap the foreign contamination if any.
4. While the leather is still damp fatliquor is introduce by spraying and padding till saturation and when the water evaporates more fatliquor can be replenished.
5. Similar to hydrating process the leather can be wrapped up and let dwells overnight.
6. When dry the leather is rinse once over with a pH 3.0 rinse, this will drive the last trace of fatliquor into the absorbent leather structure.
7. A check by hand to ensure that the leather surface gives a squeaky feel.

Leather Strengthening:
1. It’s to impregnate the worn leather grains and micro cracks.
2. To seal, strengthen and leveling out uneven absorption.
3. It fills and tightens with good leveling properties that is film forming for improve abrasion resistance designed for further coating process.
4. Apply only to damages finishes into the leather structure and any excess on existing coating to be wiped off.
5. Here the sanding comes in to reduce build-up.

Leather Repair:
1. Leather Bond and Leather Stucco are used for physical damages.
2. Where leather structure is subject to stress and flex the very flexible bond is used, or in addition to the stucco to give added strength without cracking when flex.
3. Here again sanding is used to remove excess without hurting the leather crust.

Adhesion Coating:
1. It is practical to pad the adhesion coating to ensure anchorage.

The remaining process is straight forward with additional notes:

1. Color Coating
To control the flow of color coating a thickening agent helps to improve hold-up especially on vertical panels.
This is practice by adding 5 to 10% into the color coat prior to spraying.
Sanding again comes in for the repairs areas

Note:

This is a “green” system, where no solvent or alcohol is used for the entire process.
It’s Non-Hazardous, Non-Toxic and Environmental friendly without the VOC.

Decided on your system products yet?

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

 

[davegillfishing]

ok..i am glad i didn't go after it with the sand paper before i read this post..
i will do the test and report back..
and i want to use all your products so if you could give me part numbers and amounts i will need for
this project i will get it ordered and start my project.
i will report the scotch tape results later today.
thanks
dave

 

[Captain Morgan]

So Dave.. did you ever finish your leather couch practice project?

I've had more calls lately regarding leather cleaning, so I've been looking into what it encompasses. Looks pretty intense and labor intensive but the results are impressive. I'm really interested in how you made out, what products you used, training manuals, DVD's, classes or if you just got help over the phone/web from Roger and/or Tony to complete your couch.

Thanks,
Bill Morgan