Mother-in-law's leather couch - stuffed?

Jack May

That Kiwi
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
2,423
Location
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Name
John
No not mine :wink:

A client called with a the need to 'clean' her MIL's couch a week out fro Christmas because they were visiting from out of town.

Cream finished leather in overall good condition except for some dye transfer. I nornally try to do any leather work but it had to be done when I couldn't get there and my tech went out to 'clean' this suite.

He hasn't come across dye transfer before so it was a new problem to him. He called me very soon into the cleaning with the problem and in the end, I r4e scheduled for when I could get there.

In the mean thime, I spoke with the client and she told me she had some black cushions on it... immediately a light went off in me head as to why Jesse couldn't remove this 'soiling'.

The client wasn't home when I called, so I have no more conclusive data, including no idea what the cushions looked like sorry. I used a dye transfer remover to no effect. The dye seems to be IN the leather now.

Overall picture.
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Close up of dye transfer.
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But while there, I noticed another 'problem', in any light, there is a 'green flourescence' type discolouration on the body contact areas od the arms and the fronts of the seat cushions.

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Adding this next problem in (which the client hasn't raised with me so maybe unaware of) I'm beginning to wonder if there is a fault with either the leather finishing of else a flow on effect from inappropriate use of products during it's life.

This is the first case of dye transfer taht I haven't been able to correct. I'm wondering if a re colouring is needed but I was honest with her and said I didn't know but would ask some questions of you guys.

Suggestions? Cures?

John
 

jayjacques

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
153
Some of those light colors do that for some reason. For me it would definitely be a recolor job. Just like you I would've first tried one or two things to lightly abrasive it off. Then if that wasn't removing it, sand, prep, and recolor. I know Roger has a few tricks up his sleeve, but for me it's easier to move right to recoloring. Even though it's technically dye transfer it has now become in the same category as if the color had worn off. In the past I've spent wasted time trying to clean only to have to still recolor.
 

Andya

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
11
Dye transfer can be a real problem and as you have rightly said the dye has now travelled into the leather finish and is now a restoration problem rather than a cleaning one. There are cleaners specifically formulated for dye transfer but these are not guaranteed to remove it when it has soaked into the finish.
The greenish tinge may be caused by the cleaning process. The dye will be made up of several colours and the cleaning process may have removed some of the colours but not others (we have seen this on more than one occassion) eg. the blue and green elements may have sunk deeper into the finish and cleaning may have removed the red elements leaving a different colour behind.

The only real recourse now will be to recolour and refinish the leather. Use alcohol cleaner first to see if this will remove any more of the dye and then proceed through the recolouring process.

It is always adviseable to remove as much of the dye transfer as possible before recolouring to prevent any dye coming back through the new pigment.

Hope this helps
 

Jack May

That Kiwi
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
2,423
Location
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Name
John
My tech cleaned the two seater, so any discolouration is from previous cleaners and not us.

On the dye transfer, I first used a transfer dye remover from Fenice, when that failed, I tried a strong cleaner then as a last resort, SPS - surface preparation solution. This will take off any clear finish and start to remove the pigments. I deliberately did this to see if it was IN the pigment and as I was removing cream pigment, the black colour wasn't moving at all.

I'm not into full colour restoration so will pass on to another company a couple of hours away that does.

Thanks for your help.

John
 

Roger Koh

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
175
I agree that the last resort is a re-coloring job if all removing attempt fails (depending on severity of dye penetration).
And for re-coloring in this situation a semi-aniline system is preferred.
A pigment system would be too heavy that flatten the grains.

#1 Remove dye from Jean - use d’Ink7.7™ > clean3.8™ > rinse3.0™.
2dInk7.jpg


#2 Dwell and agitate.
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#3 Extract
4-1.jpg


#4 Finished.
5.jpg


#5 Permanent Marker removed by either d’Marker10.5™ or d’Ink7.7™.
1ink77ontoSharpieMarkerStainonLeath.jpg


#6 d’Ink7.7™ in action
4RinsewithWater.jpg


#7 Optional bleach10.3™.
5BleachApplication.jpg


# 8 After bleaching
6FinalNon-DistructiveMarkerRemovalR.jpg


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

Product instruction is as follows:

d’Marker10.5™ specialty leather cleaner pH value 10.5 is a water-based self pH neutralizing leather stain remover.
To: Remove paint, nail-polish, permanent-marker, ink, tar, correction-fluid, etc.
For: All leathers - aniline, pure-aniline, semi-aniline, vegetable-tanned, pigmented, simulated bicast, nubuck and suede or woolskin.
Instruction:
1. To test for color loss on pigmented leather or dye loss on aniline leather prior to application.
2. To use d’Ink7.7™ if test shows color or dye loss.
3. To apply - use a saturated cotton swab to lift stain.
4. To remove residue - use clean3.8™.
5. To acidify rinse - use rinse3.0™.

d’Ink7.7™ specialty leather cleaner pH value 7.7 is a water-based paint, oil, grease and ink leather stain remover.
For: All semi-aniline, pigmented, simulated, bicast or other semi and non-absorbent leathers.
To: Remove ballpoint-ink, permanent marker, paint, oil, grease, crayon, aged silicone, newspaper print and blue jean dye transfer.
Also used as a prep cleaner prior to refinishing.
Instruction:
1. To apply neatly onto stain and let dwell a minimum of 30 minutes or longer for complete stain deflocculation to occur.
2. To use as a prep cleaner - apply with brush; let dwell a minimum of 30 minutes or longer and scrub with anilineEraser4™.
3. To extract suspended soil before it dries - use dry absorbent towel until it shows clean.
4. To remove sticky residue or darkening effect from light colored semi-absorbent leathers - use clean3.8™.
5. To acidify rinse until towel shows clean - use rinse3.0™.
6. To hydrate dried leathers - use relaxer3.3™.
7. To soften and strengthen leather structure -use fatliquor5.0™.
8. To impart a non-stick sensuous surface feel with a classic leather scent - use leatherScent’B™, D, S or W.


bleach10.3™ specialty leather cleaner pH value 10.3 becomes a leather bleach when mixed with warm water to a creamy paste.
For: Bleaching pure dye stains on pigmented, simulated, bicast and non-absorbent leathers only.
Instruction:
1. To remove compound oil or grease dye stain like ballpoint ink use d’Ink7.7™ prior to bleaching it.
2. To mix to a creamy paste consistency use non metal tools with 90º F warm water.
2. To allow a minimum 6 hours dwelling time for chemical reaction to take effect.
3. To neutralize its high alkalinity, use acidifier2.0™.
4. To clean up residues - use clean3.8™
5. To acidify rinse it - use rinse3.0™.


acidifier2.0™ concentrate - shake well and mix with 25 parts distilled water before use.
Ready-to-use specialty leather cleaner pH value 2.0 is a water-based strong leather acidifier.
For: All leathers - aniline, pure-aniline, semi-aniline, vegetable-tanned, pigmented, bicast, nubuck and suede or woolskin and fur skin.
To: Neutralize strong alkaline exposure that cause bleeds, marks, streaks, brightness, tackiness or sliminess;
especially after alkaline-cleaners, hand-soap, ammonia, bleach, lye, caustic-soda, baby-wipes, etc.
Instruction:
1. To detect alkaline exposure that result in sliminess or tackiness - check by lightly rubbing with wet fingers.
2. To apply - use brush, cotton swab or spray and agitate with leatherBrush1™, nubuckBrush2™ or suedeBrush3™.
3. To let dwell 5 to 30 minutes depending on exposure severity.
4. To test for satisfaction - check again with wet fingers for a healthy squeaky feel.
5. To extract - use dry absorbent towel.
6. To remove all foreign residues - use rinse3.0™ for all leather types and rinse4.0™ for wool and fur types.

clean3.8™ concentrate - shake well and mix with 64 parts distilled water before use.
Ready-to-use leather cleaner pH value 3.8 is a water-based general purpose leather-safe cleaner.
To: Penetrate, lubricate and suspense soiling safely and effectively through chemical reaction in harmony with all leather constituents.
For: All leathers - aniline, pure-aniline, semi-aniline, vegetable-tanned, pigmented, bicast, nubuck, suede and all fabric except rayon or silk.
Instruction:
1. To identify, inspect, dry soil removal, bleeding test, wet-rub test prior to application.
2. To remove extreme soil, grease or oil - use d’Ink7.7™, d’Oil4.4™, d’Grease4.9™ or preClean4.3™ prior to clean3.8™.
3. To shake well, spray evenly and agitate with matching leatherBrush1™, nubuckBrush2™ or suedeBrush3™.
4. To extract suspended soil - use dry absorbent towel.
5. To acidify rinse until towel shows clean - use rinse3.0™.
6. To hydrate dried leather structures - use relaxer3.3™.
7. To soften and strengthen leather structure - use fatliquor5.0™.
8. To replenish and revive pull-up effect - use either oilEffect63™ or waxEffect95™.
9. To impart a non-stick sensuous surface feel with a classic leather scent - use leatherScent’B™, D, S or W.


rinse3.0™ concentrate - shake well and mix with 80 parts distilled water before use.
Ready-to-use specialty leather cleaner pH value 3.0 is a water-based leather-safe acidifier rinse.
For: All leathers - aniline, pure-aniline, semi-aniline, vegetable-tanned, pigmented, bicast, nubuck, suede and all fabric except rayon or silk.
To: Neutralize harmful alkaline and perspiration residues.
Stabilize and strengthen leather constituent pH chemistry integrity.
Acidify - cationized (+ve) charge protein fiber below its iso-electric point to increase hydrogen bonding power prior to anionic (-ve) fatliquor5.0™.
Instruction:
1. To shake well, spray evenly and agitate with leatherBrush1™, nubuckBrush2™ or suedeBrush3™.
2. To extract suspended soil with dry absorbent towel until towel shows clean.
3. To hydrate dried leathers to facilitate colloidal water movement for hydrogen bonding or capillary motion - use relaxer3.3™.
4. To soften and strengthen leather - use fatliquor5.0™.
5. To replenish and revive pull-up leathers - use oilEffect63™ or waxEffect95™.
6. To impart a sensuous non-stick surface feel with a classic leather scent - use leatherScent’B™, D, S or W.


leatherScent’B™ concentrate - warm bottle, shake well and mix with 9½ parts distilled water before use.
Ready-to-use specialty leather conditioner is a non film-forming surface conditioner to enhance a soft natural buttery feel with a classic leather scent.
For: Aniline, pigmented, simulated or oil pull-up nubuck.
To: Impart a non-stick surface essentially to shield the detrimental effects of sticky soiling.
Increase leather resistance to wet and dry rubs, thus reduce scuff or abrasion.
Reduce squeaks when leather rubs against leather during movement.
Instruction:
1. To identify, inspect and dry soil removal before application.
2. To shake well, mist spray and spread evenly with a foam brush.
3. To spray and wipe with absorbent towel for quick easy care.
4. To achieve a “finger writing effect” on oil pull-up nubuck groom with nubuckBrush2™ when dry.

adhesion73™ is a water based compact resin adhesion promoter.
To: Improve adhesion as a sealer coat for further finish coating.
For: Pigmented or semi-aniline leather after degreasing to assure proper adhesion prior to color coat.
Also used especially after oilEffect63™ or waxEffect95™ replenishing prior to top coating.
Instruction:
1. To shake well, hand padding preferred and let dry naturally or speed dry with blow dryer.
2. To proceed with choice of further coating.

thickener48™ is a water based carboxylated acrylic co-polymer thickening agent.
To: Adjust the flow of color coat to improve finish hold up especially when spray onto vertical panels.
It is highly effective and maintains the viscosity over the period of use.
Instruction:
1. To add up to 5% on total weight of color coat and stir simultaneously while adding.

semiColor74™ is a water-based soft compact resin blend high performance fine micro-pigment color.
For: Semi-aniline garment, handbag, upholstery.
Comes in 15 basic colors to mix and match: Black-712, Blue-740, ThaloBlue-709, MarineBlue-746, Green-771, Lemon-726, Yellow-735, Ochre-784, QuinRed-741, ChromRed-717, DiazoRed-754, Violet-710, Maroon-702, Tan-786 & White-705.
Instruction:
1. To prep clean leather surface free of soil and other foreign residue prior to color coating - use d’Ink7.7™, d'Oil4.4™ or d’Grease4.9™, clean3.8™ and rinse3.0™.
2. To control drips, flows and color stability during spraying - use thickener48™.
3. To ensure a better adhesion - use adhesion73™.
4. To achieve a desired aesthetic appearance - use light coating thereafter without overloading the grain.
5. To protect the color coat - use semiTop57G™ for gloss, semiTop57M™ for matte or an in-between satin mix.

semiTop57M™ is a water-based matte multipurpose soft polyurethane leather topcoat.
For: Semi-aniline garment, handbag or upholstery leathers.
It is lightfast and non-yellowing.
It has excellent flow and leveling properties.
Top coat characteristic is comparable to lacquer emulsion.
Recoatable and forms a flexible tough film.
It gives good performing results when used for fine semi-aniline effects.
Instruction:
1. To be used after color coat otherwise - use d’Ink7.7™, clean3.8™ and rinse3.0™ to prep clean surface.
2. To dull it further - use duller63™.
3. To prefer a satin finish - mix it with an equal amount of semiTop54G™.
4. To achieve professional result other than foam brushing for garment - avoid drips or spits and spray evenly a panel at a time for even coverage.
5. To enhance the leather sensuously when dry - use leatherScent’B™.
 

Andya

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
11
The light but intense pigments that are available today do not flatten any grain pattern and so little is applied that you do not alter grain pattern or texture.
'Semi Aniline' is a selling term that has no real definition (there has been a call for it to be dropped as a term) and has been applied to too many differnt leathers to have any real meaning. Micro Pigments (a more realistic description) can be fixed with BRIT pigment restoration products becasue they are so light and do not alter the grain pattern in any way. We have turned black to white successfully with no loss of grain pattern or texture.
 

Greenie

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
6,820
wow...bringing back memories of Harry Hides 3 day class. this room alone is worth the $5 a month.

Someone should move a thread like this to the clean room for a few days.

btw: I wonder how many Yanks are wonderin' if "stuffed" means filled with poly fiber or SCREWED!?
 

Shorty

RIP
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
5,111
Location
Cairns
Name
Shorty Glanville
Greenie said:
wow...bringing back memories of Harry Hides 3 day class. this room alone is worth the $5 a month.

Someone should move a thread like this to the clean room for a few days.

btw: I wonder how many Yanks are wonderin' if "stuffed" means filled with poly fiber or SCREWED!?



I remember that class well Greenie.

Over at Bernie Roybal's young blokes place on Losee Rd in North Las Vegas, near The Cannery Casino.

Tony really opened my eyes up as to what can be done, and the money to be made, in leather repairs.

I think it's good to re-hash these posts so that people can see what can really be accomplished with regards to leather.

How much money are YOU leaving on that couch that you can't ( or think you can't ) save.:?:

Ooroo,

:roll:



PS :::: I'd really like to see a lot more repairs, as well as problems on here, especially in regards to leather.

PPS ::: Roger Koh also showed me a lot that can be done with expensive leathers, and I also gained a lot of good info from Lonnie McDonald, whom unfortunately, we do not hear much of these days. There are also other great instructors out there such as Steve Poulos, Steve Andrews and many more that I'm sure you guys would know better than me.
 

harryhides

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
4,429
Location
Canada
Name
Tony
Ah yes, that was a fun class with all of those goofs.

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Shorty, I finally had the pleasure of meeting the very smart and innovative Mr Steve Paulos at Connections Florida.
I have since put him in touch with Roger.
 

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