I’m hitting the wall

ACE

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Lawrence, KS
Name
Mike Hughes
I’ve been working 7 days a week here lately trying to stay afloat. The numbers are still a bit down from last year. I’m just not seeing the big commercial jobs like last year. I’m taking allot of cashflow work (hotel, apartment, national contactor, janitorial) I’ve been paying my bills, but there is no room for growth with the slim margins I’ve been running.

The student housing turn is around the corner, which is kind of like my Black Friday. If I can keep putting out 70-80+ hour weeks through the summer I should have some cash reserves. At that point, I need to take operations in another direction. I’m not busting my balls much longer just to break even.

I tell myself daily I need to raise prices, fire half my customers and take only profitable work (The kind I could pay someone else to do and still make money). On the other hand, I could cut expenses to absolute minimum, curb my ambition and be a content bottom feeder. Everyone wants to be at the top of the food chain, but you still have to eat on your way up. So, My question is in this economy how cocky can a BDO/O afford to be?
 

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
112,308
Location
The High Chapperal
Low end work should not be done by the owner, you should be out gathering more low end stuff while your crews take care of the work


You cant be high and and ow end in a one truck outfit.
Pick one and run with it.
 

ACE

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Lawrence, KS
Name
Mike Hughes
I get that but,

I'm too busy doing work that I can't afford to send a chimp out on / Don't trust the chimp to do. I tryed hiring a full time chimp last fall to get him trained. He bleed my dry over the winter when I didn't really need him then stopped coming to work in the spring so he could collect unemployment. Now I'm in a tight spot.

Maybe I'll take SFS and try to gleam some knowledge. Most of the guru advice seems like bullshit that is written for another audience then me. It kind of gives me the same feeling I have when I read Forbes.
 

ACE

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Lawrence, KS
Name
Mike Hughes
:roll: Yea, you would think.

I have a good kid for the summer. Maybe by the fall there will be some guys that have maxed out there long term unemployment and are ready to take an entry level carpet tech job. I’m hesitant to hire anyone more then part time going into the slower season after this last kid fooked me.
 

floorguy

Supportive Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
6,948
Location
Utah
Name
Doug
depends on what your ending goal is????

small multi truck...

o/o that has some good part time workers to call on when needed...

or someone who wants to stay on his own and do his own work...staying away from bigger things..
 

Ken Snow

RIP
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
6,987
Location
Bingham Farms MI
Name
Ken Snow
1. Stop calling them chimps and you may get better quality out of them.
2. They can't collect unemployment if you have work for them. Something isn't adding up in ur dialogue.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 

ACE

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Lawrence, KS
Name
Mike Hughes
The CHIMP tells me he no longer has daycare cuz his girlfriend moved out and is now only available nights and weekends and he is filling for unemployment becuse he heard you can get it if you are working less than 40 hours /week. He calls in the next 3 night and weekend shifts in a row so, I fire him. He collects unemployment, I appeal, he wins because I did not have a written attendance policy.
 

Ken Snow

RIP
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
6,987
Location
Bingham Farms MI
Name
Ken Snow
Ok thanks for clarifying, now it makes sense.

So- Hire him back, stopping the unemployment. Establish an attendance policy with progressive discipline and follow it to a tee. Either he will make it work or he will cause himself to be terminated for cause and not be able to collect again.

Ken
 

dday

Member
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
200
Ken Snow said:
1. Stop calling them chimps and you may get better quality out of them....

Amen to that ... I don't believe for a moment any of my former employers considered me to be a "chimp," and if ever I would found that to be the case, I would have been gone pretty quickly. Respect is indeed a two-way street.
 

ACE

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Lawrence, KS
Name
Mike Hughes
:x Like Hell I'll hire that POS back on.

They will always be CHIMPS in my mind untell I can trust them to do anything without direct supervision. I know you don’t get this Ken because you have a well established operation, but it’s a huge step for an O/O to hire a right hand man. Do you think I have good screening, training or employee policies and procedures in place? I’m interviewing applicants at fooking McDonalds. Hiring the wrong guy (more than likely the case) is a BIG setback.
 

ACE

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Lawrence, KS
Name
Mike Hughes
June 6, 2011


Employment Security board of Review
401 SW Topeka Blvd
Topeka, KS 66603

Appeal of Docket Number 105047

Reference: Matthew Farney

Judge Jesse James ( alias? ) decision is a departure from good judgment, common since and reality. As a very small business with one employee, I obviously do not have an employee handbook and written attendance policy. It is a minimum expectation of every employer that employees make a reasonable effort to be available for work. Matthew Farney informed me that his availability changed from anytime to nights and weekends only. Matt then “texts” in to work the next 3 night and weekend shifts in a row. How can I write him up if he stops coming to work? To say that Matt “was discharged, but not for misconduct connected with the work” is ludicrous.

Matt filled for unemployment BEFORE being terminated despite being offered the 25-40 hours a week in the job description. Are you really going to reward someone who would rather collect the dole than work for a living?

Michael Hughes
 

Ken Snow

RIP
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
6,987
Location
Bingham Farms MI
Name
Ken Snow
You seem to have convinced yourself of some things are likely to keep you in the status quo. Not sure of the purpose of the post.
 

Desk Jockey

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
64,833
Location
A planet far far away
Name
Rico Suave
So, My question is in this economy how cocky can a BDO/O afford to be?
I'd build up your nest egg and hold tight through the winter, strategize for spring marketing, if it goes well then go balls out through the summer and then you'll have built a nest egg to continue the cycle again.
 

Ken Snow

RIP
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
6,987
Location
Bingham Farms MI
Name
Ken Snow
The fact that we are established has nothing to do with treating employees with dignity and respect. Every time we hire someone they don't know our business or how we do things, that is irrelevant to how we treat them and if anything those are the ones that need more positive interaction and pats on the back.

Someone who does not feel important, who is treated like a no nothing, and paid accordingly is not likely to ever be any more than a "chimp".

It all starts at the top, never at the bottom. What you expect to get is what you will get, every time.
 

floorguy

Supportive Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
6,948
Location
Utah
Name
Doug
dpmt fire them...cut back their hrs, till it isnt worth it to them...

have another worker come to cover, incase he doesnt come....its easier to have them quit then to fire them
 

Brian R

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,945
Location
Little Elm, TX
Name
Brian Robison
Don't hire employees....Not worth the hassle.

Wouldn't you rather support another Owner Operator who actually cares about the work they do? AND maybe understands a little bit of the business part so he will respect what you do?
 

ACE

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Lawrence, KS
Name
Mike Hughes
Ken Snow said:
You seem to have convinced yourself of some things are likely to keep you in the status quo. Not sure of the purpose of the post.

I guess I just needed to vent. Again, I do not expect you to understand this but, if you’re not born with, or do not marry into money you have to work your azz off to build a business and there is a huge learning curve. You make it sound like you built haghopenis from the ground up with nothing but your superior intellect and the power of positive thought. I’m sure you are a world class business man, but you don’t know anything about sweat equity.

And don’t talk to me about respect you arrogant prick. I paid that CHIMP a living wage bought all his meals at work, gave him the opportunity to learn a trade, dipped into saving and used credit cards to give him hours in the dead of winter plus, gave him $50 cash for fooking Christmas.
 

Ken Snow

RIP
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
6,987
Location
Bingham Farms MI
Name
Ken Snow
Lol- re-read what u wrote. I can take all the insults. I am okay with myself. What i have a hard time is hearing people complain about employee issues that don't look in the mirror.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
335
Location
LV, NV
Name
Damon
Ken,

I have a low post count, but I have lots of hours lurking and I have to say that you seem to have a great mind for business management.

However, I think maybe you're misunderstanding Mike. Yeah, he calls this guy a chimp and yes it's lame. But, let's assume he treated the guy with respect, paid his wage, made sure he was getting a check during the lean times and gave bonuses to boot. All this just to get burned with no call/no shows when the season picks up and needs the guy more than ever.

I went through this same thing in the past in a non-carpet business and it really burns you. If you have an operation with 30 - 40 people you expect it despite your best efforts. Your main concern at that level is general retention, compliance, etc. But as a small time operator on the way up - or worse struggling - it becomes very personal.

Ken Snow said:
What i have a hard time is hearing people complain about employee issues that don't look in the mirror.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
335
Location
LV, NV
Name
Damon
Right on.

Question, where do you find these quality subs?

I've talked to some and it seems like difficult waters to navigate to be sure.

Would really like your feedback on this.

Brian R said:
Don't hire employees....Not worth the hassle.

Wouldn't you rather support another Owner Operator who actually cares about the work they do? AND maybe understands a little bit of the business part so he will respect what you do?
 

Ken Snow

RIP
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
6,987
Location
Bingham Farms MI
Name
Ken Snow
I may have misunderstood I don't know, but being proud to call the most important thing in his business a chimp is pretty hard to misunderstand. We are not talking rocket science here we are talking carpet cleaning. Either someone can be trained in a very short time to be an excellent cleaner or A) they are incompetent and should be gone, or B) the trainer is the issue.

My goal was not to get in a pissing contest, but I don't back down from my feelings or from calling out people that I think are not looking in the mirror~ I sure know that I need to look in it myself sometime. I tried to give the guy some things to think about and it is fine for him to do as he pleases and insult me. Hopefully in between insults and defensiveness he thinks about some of the things said in the thread by me and others. I have nothing but respect for OO's, I can definitely appreciate how hard it is to be all things to a business.

Ken
 

Chris A

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
5,475
Location
OH
Name
Chris
eh, don't worry Mike Ken needed to be knocked down a peg or two...
 

Brian R

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,945
Location
Little Elm, TX
Name
Brian Robison
thecleaningdude said:
Right on.

Question, where do you find these quality subs?

I've talked to some and it seems like difficult waters to navigate to be sure.

Would really like your feedback on this.

Brian R said:
Don't hire employees....Not worth the hassle.

Wouldn't you rather support another Owner Operator who actually cares about the work they do? AND maybe understands a little bit of the business part so he will respect what you do?


It's not easy.

It's a happy medium of "not a dirt bag" and "not an arrogant prick"
It's finding the guy who just wants to clean but isn't much of a marketing guy.
The problem is ...those guys who don't do any marketing are sometimes not exactly "high end" workers....unless you us the word "high" in the Haight and ashbury sense.

Sometimes while looking for "the guy" I will just work out something with a quality company in the area or a higher end owner op who isn't afraid to split a job that I send him from time to time.

I've found some really good subs.....I've found some guys who I would never have work for me ever. (better Ken? !gotcha! )


Good luck.
 

Brian R

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,945
Location
Little Elm, TX
Name
Brian Robison
I didn't have them work for me. :roll:

Althought those one dudes were stealing from me....but that was almost like a white collar/blue collar crime. lmao
 

juniorc82

Supportive Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
1,671
Location
Jefferson City missouri
Name
Jon Coret
Ken Snow said:
The fact that we are established has nothing to do with treating employees with dignity and respect. Every time we hire someone they don't know our business or how we do things, that is irrelevant to how we treat them and if anything those are the ones that need more positive interaction and pats on the back.

Someone who does not feel important, who is treated like a no nothing, and paid accordingly is not likely to ever be any more than a "chimp".

It all starts at the top, never at the bottom. What you expect to get is what you will get, every time.
Ken I think you are missing mikes point. I think you are going way out into outerspace with this chimp thing. I know in a casual setting like this board mike may refer to him as a chimp. However having worked with mike on large projects I can say that he has set a great example for me and other owner ops and has demonstrated the highest level proffesionalism and respect to fellow teammates of all levels.
I gotta say when you put your whole life into building a business or at least trying to, it can realy hurt when someone gives you the crap end of the stick . I think walking into and running an existing business doesnt carry the emotional and financial attachment of building your own.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom