How well do you know your prespray?

BIG WOOD

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For a long time, I used Chemspec Grease Eraser. It worked fantastic, especially when a booster was added to brighten the light colored carpet at a low dilution. But like all pre sprays, I got bored of it, when Firestorm and SS1 came out. I've only used the sample of SS1, but I've got a 5 gallon bucket coming in the mail soon.

Currently, I'm using Grand Slam, the popular copied butyl pre spray that's on most pre spray shelves. The good thing about Grand slam is they're coming out with a new version of it soon where you don't have to shake it up. So I assume it will be sprayed more evenly
 
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Nate W.
For a long time, I used Chemspec Grease Eraser. It worked fantastic, especially when a booster was added to brighten the light colored carpet at a low dilution. But like all pre sprays, I got bored of it, when Firestorm and SS1 came out. I've only used the sample of SS1, but I've got a 5 gallon bucket coming in the mail soon.

Currently, I'm using Grand Slam, the popular copied butyl pre spray that's on most pre spray shelves. The good thing about Grand slam is they're coming out with a new version of it soon where you don't have to shake it up. So I assume it will be sprayed more evenly

You mean Chemeisters grease eraser?
 

Mark Von*Lay

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I always thought Pro-Zyme was the best pre-spray I had ever used, but that a bit of traffic lane wicking was immediate no matter how much I pre-vac'd or rinsed. Ended up trying other things and never got back to it, but seriously, it works great.
ARA made by pros choice
 
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steve_64

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Pro-zyme works great for us. When things get a little nastier we will boost with Firestorm or go full strength Firestorm. We had been using Flex but I really like the way Firestorm seems to destroy traffic lane soil with minimal crb action.
Prozyme is my regular prespray and it does a great job. Add a little osr for the Browning issues

I tried flex and liked it but am staying with prozyme and extreme clean.
 
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Ross Martin
Rotovac Oxy-Enzyme is my "regular" pre-spray.

I don't ever add anything to it.

I don't think I have ever even mixed it full strength according to the label directions, even on nasty grout lines.

Used to have my little meth lab on the back of the truck every job, mixing a little of this and a little of that.
 
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Jim Williams

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I have switched back to Procyon to save my precious lungs and have found it will clean almost any residential if I boost it with Bridgepoint Boost all.

I still keep a can of Extreme clean around to break up doggie oils if I have to.
 

Larry Cobb

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How much polyester carpet are you cleaning now ???

The carpet industry keeps changing the requirements for a good prespray.

The environmentalists also are demanding more renewable resources.

Our new-technology prespray answer has been Citra-Green,
with a designed surfactant which outcleans every surfactant commonly used.

It is BioRenewable since the surfactant is made from plant resources,
and the solvent is natural from oranges.

No high pH builders, which cause coughing (pH=9.5 RTU)

What's not to like . . . and enhance your MARKETING advantages ?

http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=5344
 
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Larry Cobb

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Quote from Mikey's article on Enzymes - "The data show that by using the approaches described for the limitation of exposure, for the provision of good occupational hygiene and for the active monitoring of health, the respiratory allergenic risk associated with enzyme proteins can be successfully managed"

They are primarily concerned with "enzyme dust" from manufacturing exposure for 8 hrs every day.
In our usage, we are talking about a solution with a very small percentage of enzyme that is in solution,
and applied as a much heavier mass which falls to the carpet rapidly (if you use the proper large jets for spraying)
- - - - - - -
A few caveats about pH above 12:

1. It will cause choking when prespraying
2. It is extremely difficult to rinse off carpet fiber (even when submerged)
3. Carpet mills spec pH 10 maximum for dye retention.
 
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BIG WOOD

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What makes a high pH hard to rinse? Doesn't it leave with the dirt?
When the ph is in a high state, it is the same as hard water is on your hands with soap. It can't rinse the surfactant out, and when the surfactant dries, it becomes sticky and attracts more dirt faster
 
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steve_64

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When the ph is in a high state, it is the same as hard water is on your hands with soap. It can't rinse the surfactant out, and when the surfactant dries, it becomes sticky and attracts more dirt faster
Why? I find hard water rinses my hands better than sift. My soft water just keeps the soap foaming more. I have to rinse a lot more to remove it all so this doesn't make sense to me.

If I out down a gallon of high pH prespray and rinse that with 30 gallons of fresh hot water is there still any prespray left? How much do I need to use to remove it all?

Do I need to do a litmus test on every job to be sure I've removed it all. I don't have resoiling issues very often if at all. Even when I was using my bane.

So what's the real issue here?

I've even checked carpet for dryness with my moisture probe after cleaning and have had it not go off where I prespray lightly. It does go off where I soak it with prespray though. Like when I'm treating for urine odors or severe soiling.
 

Larry Cobb

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Quoting an expert of cleaning on high pH . . .

Gregg Sanko, Senior Chemist

"Caustics, a major ingredient of cleaners, are poor rinsers."
 

BIG WOOD

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Why? I find hard water rinses my hands better than sift. My soft water just keeps the soap foaming more. I have to rinse a lot more to remove it all so this doesn't make sense to me.

If I out down a gallon of high pH prespray and rinse that with 30 gallons of fresh hot water is there still any prespray left? How much do I need to use to remove it all?

Do I need to do a litmus test on every job to be sure I've removed it all. I don't have resoiling issues very often if at all. Even when I was using my bane.

So what's the real issue here?

I've even checked carpet for dryness with my moisture probe after cleaning and have had it not go off where I prespray lightly. It does go off where I soak it with prespray though. Like when I'm treating for urine odors or severe soiling.
You're the first one I know to say that hard water rinses better. I don't know the chemistry of all the alkaline pre sprays, and from what our suppliers have told us...today's high ph pre spray rinses better than the high ph pre sprays 20years ago with normal hot tap water. Have you checked the ph of your city water? It might not be as hard as you think. My tap water is a hair over 7ph, so I don't feel like I need an acid rinse on synthetic nor do I need a water softener.

My point was that when you're cleaning the carpet with hard water...you're removing the dirt. The problem is the surfactant isn't broken down if the ph is still high, and that'll be the problem 2 weeks later

But I'm not a chemist...just a forum geek from what all you geeks have told me in the past
 

steve_64

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Not sure about my pH here but the hardness is about 20. That's why I bought a softner. I can rub my hands after rinsing and still get a little foam so I have to use agitation by rubbing harder to get it all out. Not so with hard water. I think the minerals in hard water cut down the foam. Not sure if it's the same on carpet. But you leave less minerals behind with soft water and it's better for the machine.

I understand the old products were sticky and foamy but I don't think it's just because they were a higher ph. I've used some lower pH around nine and ten that dried sticky and we're foamy and hard to rinse.

So why do people say just because it's high pH it's hard to rinse?
 

steve_64

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Is it because caustics Penetrate deeper in the fiber? Do they etch the fiber then?

I didn't think caustics are sticky neither.
 

BIG WOOD

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Not sure about my pH here but the hardness is about 20. That's why I bought a softner. I can rub my hands after rinsing and still get a little foam so I have to use agitation by rubbing harder to get it all out. Not so with hard water. I think the minerals in hard water cut down the foam. Not sure if it's the same on carpet. But you leave less minerals behind with soft water and it's better for the machine.

I understand the old products were sticky and foamy but I don't think it's just because they were a higher ph. I've used some lower pH around nine and ten that dried sticky and we're foamy and hard to rinse.

So why do people say just because it's high pH it's hard to rinse?
I'm not sure why larry thinks that it's hard to rinse. Heck, 600psi at 200f should get the majority of it out. At least that's the way I think. And I've been wrong more than once
 

FredC

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Not sure about my pH here but the hardness is about 20. That's why I bought a softner. I can rub my hands after rinsing and still get a little foam so I have to use agitation by rubbing harder to get it all out. Not so with hard water. I think the minerals in hard water cut down the foam. Not sure if it's the same on carpet. But you leave less minerals behind with soft water and it's better for the machine.

I understand the old products were sticky and foamy but I don't think it's just because they were a higher ph. I've used some lower pH around nine and ten that dried sticky and we're foamy and hard to rinse.

So why do people say just because it's high pH it's hard to rinse?


I don't know exactly how it plays out with carpet presprays........but this has also been my experience.

Soft water makes thing "slimy" and far more difficult to get that squeaky clean

I can see how maybe getting truly hard water softer might help but soft water sucks for rinsing
 
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D Luke

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Derek
@Scott W @scottw (Not sure which one you use)

Can you please address this and share your thoughts?

We all know that soft water can clean better, but what about rinsing?

When I rinse soap off of my hands with hard water it's gone instantly. When I try to rinse soap off of my hands using the super soft, filtered water from the drain valve on my fresh tank it takes FOREVER to rinse it away. Matter of fact, I usually just rinse for a while and then say "ehh, Good Enough" and proceed to wipe the rest of the soapy water off my hands with a towel.

Does it stand to reason that super soft water isn't rinsing pre-treatments out of carpets as quickly/easily?
 

roro

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Wellington
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New clients - Do you all do an airwand before hitting everything with high pH presprays?
roro
 

steve_64

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New clients - Do you all do an airwand before hitting everything with high pH presprays?
roro
No. Just yesterday I tried just using clean free on a lightly soiled rental and there was no improvement. Had to go strong to release the soil around where the furniture was.
 

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