High Flow wands, more water or just faster?

[Mikey P]

Seeing how the 12, 16 and 24 flow fad is over, what have you old timers who were here for the Greenie Revolution, settled on flow wise?

Sure 12 and above let you move the wand faster and flush deeper without as much need of agitation, but at what price?

Less heat unless you bought a monstermount
Wet backings, slower dry times..


Has "8" taken over as the best compromise for the Saiger&Sutleys?

 

[Dan]

I have been bouncing around with 8, 10 and 12 flow lately. Also bouncing from 500-600 psi trying to find the happy medium and liking 8 flow near 600 psi. Next adjustment will be to 10 flow and probably 550ish psi. At this point i would rather maintain consistent heat thru the job over heat spiked flushes.

 

[Mikey P]

Is this all in conjunction with trying to pre scrub as little as possible?

A worthy goal if you're heavy with repeats

 

[Dan]

I like consistentcy from job to job and always carry a vacuum and at least two additional prescrubbers onboard. The Hoss was temporarily booted for a bit last week just because I never use it.

 

[roro]

Join the slow movement. nice, relaxed and slow gets you one pass cleaning at high heat.
Give it a try at about 6 flow with about 450 psi on wool or 250 psi on synthetic -
Add a drying stroke if it's winter or high humidity.

roro

 

[BIG WOOD]

I discovered that high flow isn't for everyone. I did 10flow on my mach and found out that if the blower isn't set up to keep a strong suction, it's not gonna be efficient enough. Since my blower is set at 12hg, it's best at 7.5-8flow on a good flush

So if you have the option to turn that hg up to 14-15, bump up the flow on the wand. You'll get more heat with the blower working harder, and it'll be able to suck more water without the bypass opening up as much. But if you can't turn up the hg, stay with the normal flow. The job will turn out just as good

 

[Jim Martin]

not so much of a fad as it was bad advice for a lot of people who did not understand the importance of balance between there tools and there machines.....once the hype started and everyone was thinking that high flow was the thing to do...over wetting...wicking..and carpets taking to long to dry.and loss of heat was all you were hearing...

get them back in balance on what there machines could handle and things went back to normal..

it has always gone back to the importance of knowing your tools and what they can do.....just because someone says its good....does not mean it will work for you...

 

[hogjowl]

I never checked to see on the DevPro.

 

[Mikey P]

I suppose my Vortex was guilty of being a part of that fad..

 

[Mikey P]

I never checked to see on the DevPro.

8

 

[Chris A]

I went from 6 to 12, to 9, and now back to 6. Only real difference I ever noticed was water usage

 

[Nate The Great]

I noticed my waste water was thinker/chocolate milk, with lower flow.. Higher flow did get more flushing action but having to dump prematurely, wasn't fun at all with 100sf left to go..

I went from a 15 flow to a 10 flow on my 13"zipper jr.

 

[steve_64]

I tried 02s but the 1.5s don't cause as much fiber distortion from what I saw. The 02s don't plug up as easy though.

I'm liking the pressure around 5 to 600 psi depending on the job. There is a balance on the speed to move the wand to still get good dry times. I can't move the wand as fast as I did my bane. I'd leave things drenched

 

[TConway]

I only went up t 12 flow back in the day, I do think it helped flush better....my problem is I just could not make the my style or pace change with the increased flow, I just clean at a pace and with 8 flow I'm getting good results, decent heat, and decent dry times...... with 12 flow I would have to dump tank.....and it would never fail.....right at the door with one or two passes to go UUUUUGGGGG.
Crazy thing over the last few month I have gotten more compliments on my carpets and how they look so I think I have found a good combo so I'm just gonna stick with it.
I had a pump out but that is another story havent used it for some time now.

 

[Cleanworks]

I have always found a 6 flow at around 500 psi works for me. We change up our presprays, rinses and scrubbing techniques to suit different jobs but keep the pressure and flow the same. No overwetting and it flushes just fine.

 

[Papa John]

I suppose my Vortex was guilty of being a part of that fad..

In the Book, "Cleaning for Health to protect the built environment" Michael Berry, there was a statement about Balance--- referring to the balance between what the components of the equipment being used and what they can adequately produce, ie clean, dry carpet.

bottom line was that your blower and heater had to be able to keep up with the amount of water you are using. If you are using a 100 psi portable, then you may want to move slower.
you also need to adjust your cleaning speed based on the condition of the carpet area you are cleaning, heavily soiled areas will take more time.
bigger blowers and better heating system will allow you to use more water AND recover more water in less time... That's why we Vortex cleaners can clean faster.

 

[rick imby]

So along these same lines... How big is your waste tank and how much will it actually hold before shutting off?

How many rooms/sq ft can you do (usually) before dumping.

How many dumps per day do you usually have to do?

 

[Mikey P]

We still run 12 flow in SCruz

Most days we can dual wand all day with out needed to dump


The RE's come out of the truck maybe 10% of the time

175 about 40% for typical heavy TAs

 

[ruff]

With the pro-1200, it can easily keep the heat with a 12 flow and the blower can more than handle the suction.
In my experience, it flushes a lot better than the lower flows. Of course one has also to take into account the pressure. As a lower flow with increased pressure will equalize.

I consider a good flush to be the healthiest and most important part of the cleaning, regardless if achieved through larger jets or increased pressure. I find that a low flow requires extra passes which for me is counter productive.

Also, if the Dev Pro is such a good sucker, why limit the flow if it has such great recovery? Makes no sense to me. Give it the best of all worlds- great flush and great drying time. Why not eat the cake and have it too? Unless the recovery is not that great, therefore the low flow.

 

[Jim Martin]

If it ain't broke..don't fix it...this wand is balanced and perfect just the way it is...

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

Savage answered this really well long time ago, balance. Your machine, hose length/diameter, wand design, clean filter and even piling up your hose. I went from a 6 flow to an 8 on my 14" glided WP, 47 blower no filter. Never did try 12 flow, didn't care and really don't care nowadays.

 

[Mikey P]

4.8s on both of your tms Jim?

 

[Mikey P]

Savage answered this really well long time ago, balance. Your machine, hose length/diameter, wand design, clean filter and even piling up your hose. I went from a 6 flow to an 8 on my 14" glided WP, 47 blower no filter. Never did try 12 flow, didn't care and really don't care nowadays.

What are you running on your 370?

 

[ruff]

These discussions here are about improvement and learning different perspectives.

"Didn't care and don't care" is fine, but it does not help much either. Clearly you cared enough at the time to move from 6 to 8, it must have been an improvement. So why stop caring now, if it will bring an improvement?
And yes, you're absolutely right, it is a matter of balance. Pressure, jet size, blower size, heat and something as simple as how fast you move the wand.

I don't accept the 'perfect as it is' analogy. Nothing is, Jim. With the right machine I am sure tweaks can be done to improve flushing. Again, it can be adjusted by just slowing the speed of the pass. It's about production and convenience.

 

[Jim Martin]

These discussions here are about improvement and learning different perspectives.

"Didn't care and don't care" is fine, but it does not help much either. Clearly you cared enough at the time to move from 6 to 8, it must have been an improvement. So why stop caring now, if it will bring an improvement?
And yes, you're absolutely right, it is a matter of balance. Pressure, jet size, blower size and heat and something as simple as how fast do you move the wand.

Don't except the perfect as it is analogy. Nothing is, Jim. With the right machine I am sure tweaks can be done to improve flushing. Again, it can be adjusted by just slowing the speed of the pass. It's about production and convenience.

I am all about preformance..and I will spend days working on things if I feel I can squeeze a bit more our of what I have..

All I'm saying is Toms wand is giving me everything I need and way more then I expected..so I think I will leave mine where it is at..

 

[Nampa Carpet Cleaning]

I discovered that high flow isn't for everyone. I did 10flow on my mach and found out that if the blower isn't set up to keep a strong suction, it's not gonna be efficient enough. Since my blower is set at 12hg, it's best at 7.5-8flow on a good flush

So if you have the option to turn that hg up to 14-15, bump up the flow on the wand. You'll get more heat with the blower working harder, and it'll be able to suck more water without the bypass opening up as much. But if you can't turn up the hg, stay with the normal flow. The job will turn out just as good

And if you turn your lift up to 15hg with that Mach 15 wand it will work your ass into the ground. I turned mine back down a little and like you said the heat dropped a little too.

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

and good point Ofer. The change I noticed was being able to reduce my solution pressure, another factor I played with for long time. As far as "wanding" on my residential I've chased my tail long enough. Perhaps I could try 4 #3 jets on my WP but I'm 90%/10% rotary/wand at this point in my process. Only thing I'm reaching/obsessing over lately is dry soil removal; quickly/effectively with as little labor as possible.

On my 370 Mike, ATM I don't run a filter basket, never have on any of my machines. I stretch a jumbo pantyhose over my blower filters, change them once per week. Only small amount (hair only) on the outside. 2" hose, glided wands and 9 months now with a 12" Trex. With this Trex I trigger foward in sections and dry pass back. The appearance and dry times are bout the only enjoyable part of my day; apart from the actual "end" of the day. So when is the next group discount on the overprice BrushPro Not Made in America Cause We're Stupid? I'd really like to try the model next up from the 10". The hair removal is something I'd like to invest in, 2K yikes....

 

[Ed Valentine]

Bottom line:
This subject can be debated forever and a day. Many, many factors apply.
However.....
"Flow" has to be more important (in one aspect) because the purpose of cleaning a carpet is to thoroughly "FLUSH" out all debris and dirt. Here was a perfect example:

Years back I used to visit a very well known Oriental Cleaning Company (Sales & Service) in Milwaukee, Wisc. They would position the (very expensive btw) rug on a hard surface. Then wash it using a standard Garden Hose! 40 psi x large water volume. Then, they would complete their cleaning by hanging (drip drying with fans) and/or extraction and fans.

"Pressure" can also, btw, be defined by and combination of High Pressure & Flow together.

However, this combination has to be refined through experimentation by the Operator and the specific carpet either on premises, or off.

Best to all

 

[BIG WOOD]

And if you turn your lift up to 15hg with that Mach 15 wand it will work your ass into the ground. I turned mine back down a little and like you said the heat dropped a little too.

At 12hg on my Titan, I have unlimited heat on a carpet job. That might be why they don't want it to go over 12.

It makes sense with your blower turned up to 15

 

[Bruce Humphrey]

Where is Ron Lipold when you need him, I'm sure he's still running 2400 flow and hooking up to fire hydrants