do you always pull pad or no??

[davegillfishing]

if it is a fresh water flood found and being worked on with in 3 hrs of flooding will you still pull the pad?
assume the flood is 50 gallons and a cat 1.

 

[davegillfishing]

ok..is there some conspiracy that i am missing? i am not here to judge just to learn and get others prospective on things.
thanks for the answer but will anyone expand on it.
dave

 

[joey895]

There is somewhat of a disagreement on whether you should ALWAYS pull pad. Fred and others think you should, while Richard and some others think it is not usually necessary on clean water losses.

This thread resulted in some discussion about it in between the snarky comments at least.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17823&hilit=pull+pad

 

[joe harper]

Dave,
Im going to get pounded for this post.....But I hope this gives you some info !

We almost never pull pad in that situation.....
Here is a little SECRET....We have never had a loss or complaint...
We have 2 ins. companys that use us for this kind of loss ....(cost efficient)..

Our procedure is this: Extract surface water.
RX 20 to compress padding.
Re-Flood affected area with Milgo or Microban.(100lb roller)
Steam clean with RX 20 & several dry passes.
Float carpet....& spray microban under carpet. (micromist fogger)
Set-up Dehus....48hrs usually /depending on sub-floor ect....
Get readings..Pull equipment..Re-stretch...Final clean.. (if nessesary)

ps The WEIGHT & CONSTANT extraction of the RX is the differance...

 

[dealtimeman]

we always pull pad, even if cat 1. i will start structural drying in place when i get my xtreme xtractor but untill then i always pull it as the cost of pad removal and replace is far less than if something goes wrong like a dehu haveing an err0r 9 and it being 90 degrees. ever since i was little i was told safe not sorry and till today i usually do it this way. i will say this, that on all cat 2 or 3 jobs we will always pull without question.

 

[topnotchman]

Different ways to do things with water damage. Cat 1, can you dry in place? Yes. Can you pull the pad? Sure. If you dont have the right equipment to extract that pad (ie. water claw, etc) then I say pull it. It will sure cut down on your dry time, and on the greater scheme of things, padding is fairly cheap. Sometimes on a Cat 1, if its just a couple really small rooms, yeah it might be better just to leave it alone. If your starting out I would say just get rid of the pad and worry about drying out the rest of the job.

 

[davegillfishing]

thanks for the thoughts..i will open and read the link now..
dave

 

[joe harper]

Fred,

I completely AGREE with your Post.....

Have you always removed the pad ?
Or... Is it the Liablity issue that could arise ? "Now that mold is the NEW asbestos'

I firmly agree with you that the education is usless......
Without the PROPER EQUIPMENT & EXPERIANCE.......


"You don't bring a THIMBLE to empty a BATHTUB"

 

[Mike Hogan]

After attending Bolden's a few years ago and purchasing the Extreme Extractor we are a firm believer in
top down drying. However,our adjusters tell us to pull pad all the time..........they just don't want the
liability. In upstate NY,we have a few yahoos that haven't a clue on proper drying and have left a bad
taste in the mouths of many.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I hate to argue with Fred, it's an unfair battle he's too smart, and so I won't.

However what we do is we handle each loss based on what we find.

We do go in with the attitude of we can save anything, but will it be cost effective to do so. Especially with the ride on extractors you can wring them out pretty good.

Will saving the pad take longer? Will it add drying days to the job? If it does add drying days, is the rental less than replacement cost?

Removing the pad is not an easy chore, often it will require cutting a seam, something we try to avoid if we can. Today's pad can be very expensive and labor intensive to replace and re stretch.

Some of it you can't dried, pet pad has double vapor barrier and won't allow air to pass through it.

For the do it yourself homeowner we always recommend they remove it, it's just easier to deal with one surface instead of two.

We save probably close to 75% of the pad we run into. :wink:

 

[dealtimeman]

richard does that 75 percent include cat 2 and 3 jobs or just cat 1 jobs?

i was told always on to pull on cat 2 and 3 as the liability factor is overwhelming compared to cost.

i thought that was also the reason for the assigning clasifications to losses.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Clean source only.

I wouldn't try to save Cat 2-3, no good way of decontaminating it.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

You guys who pull the pad no matter what, are you against sub surface extractions in your cleaning process?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Had a State Farm Phone Adjuster today bitching about top down drying, and how they are working to refuse doing an work with anyone doing it.

I think he was full of it. Has anyone heard of that?

 

[Hoody]

Yes Richard sure have! When more adjusters start coming to the restoration courses and learn more about drying with heat, they'll understand the added value to it, and to in place drying. They'll also know when the restorer is making a bad judgment call in doing the in place drying and saving the pad on the cat 1 losses.

Until then I wouldn't bother trying to explain, especially to a phone adjuster.

They remind me of the adjusters that say no to soda blasting attics after a fire, and only expect a paint sprayer and Kilz or Bin to solve the problem.

I don't blame it on their ignorance really, its more of their lack of education and old ways of doing things.

 

[dealtimeman]

exaclty what fred said, i havent had one of these ignorant adjusters yet and hope i never will. most adjusters i deal with will go in and look over my setup and call me up and tell me one of two things. one we need to meet out at the job asap or two i trust you to do a good job let me know when its dry. every once in a while they will ask why did you do that? and i will explain but if or when i start drying in place i am sure the questions and bitching will come up more frequently due to the fact that the industry standard is to pull pad always.

 

[kmdineen]

If you pull pad for liability reasons, surly you remove baseboards and cut out affected sheetrock? If you are worried about a pad not drying properly why assume the potential liability of drying a wall? If you think there is a need to apply a antimicrobial to the carpet and pad how do you treat the walls, they were affected with the same water. It is important to be consistent in your procedure.

I dry everything " in place" as much as possible, it is much easier to let the equipment do the work. I know S500 recommends removing the pad on a cat2 but the cat2 designation is a grey area and S500 is a guide line.

 

[Desk Jockey]

We still float the majority of them, I know, old school, but by choice, not by ignorance. :shock:

We've been to Drizone, Dewald's & Boldens but are very picky on when we use the top down drying method.

It works and we can and do use it but it is not our primary method of drying. Works much better in basements or unoccupied spaces.

Drying equipment is so noisey, asking homeowners to live in a wind tunnel is just asking too much.

Also coming from the mold background we just don't have a comfort level unless we get air movement in afffected wall cavities. Injectidry, Driforce, Adaptidry what ever the job calls for. We can even use an interceptor or airscrubber when what's in the wall cavity is a concern.

Top down drying while easier to process, but takes a much more through job of inspecting for dryness.

Don't trust any one meter, a thermal helps, put you can't beat an intrusive meter to be sure it's dry.

I'm sure there are plenty out there doing a great job of it, but I'm equally sure that there are plenty of those out there screwing it up for the rest of us too!

 

[dealtimeman]

i alway pull pad but do not always cut sheetrock. if neccesary i will drill holes ad injectidry or cut larger holes and duct into them. only time i remove large amounts of sheetrock if it is visibly damaged. and to me it is far easier to dry sheetrock than it is to dry pad.

 

[sweendogg]

Had a State Farm Phone Adjuster today bitching about top down drying, and how they are working to refuse doing an work with anyone doing it.

I think he was full of it. Has anyone heard of that?

State farm is full of frigant idiots and we have the lion share of them here in Bloomington Norma, as we are the Headquarters for State Farm. The same idots who don't approve top down practices from a veteran restoration expert like yourself Chavez, wanted to save a 20 year old twice flooded carpet that had a dry rot and delaminated back. They tried to tell us ( a 55 year old retail and installtion business) that it could be reinstalled and they have never set a foot on a real carpet installation. Stupid Stupid insurance people. The sad thing is those adjusters after they have gone through all the tests that State Farm offers for promotion can end up making over 350,000 by the time they retire for giving bad advice!!! And yet they are all cheap bastards who won't spend a penny for quality flooring or quality cleaning service.

 

[topnotchman]

Some adjusters I've worked with look over the job and think the CARPET has to be replaced. This is on Cat 1 jobs. I have to explain how we saved it. I guess they think they have to replace everything that got affected?

 

[dealtimeman]

i had an adjuster last week on the walkthrough to duoble up on all equipment, thats right everything. he wanted zero chance of mold or of any mildew smell. he gave me one request and that was to keep the complaints about the wd down to a minimum.