Berber installation

[Hoody]

I'm not an installer, but I'm wondering if the installer is suppose to use a double tack strip when installing it ?

 

[harryhides]

The CRI 105 Installation code states :

9.3 Tackless Strip - Tackless strip applications are to be matched to each specific use in accordance with Table V. (NOTE: Standard and pre-nailed strip should be a minimum of 1 inch (25 mm) wide and 1/4 inch (6 mm) thick.) Architectural strip with three rows of pins is to be used for carpet with heavily latexed backs, most wovens, and certain "Berber" type carpet with knobby backs, or for rooms exceeding 30 feet (9 m).

9.4 Installation of Tackless Strip -
· Full length pieces of tackless strip should be spread around the wall perimeter with pins pointing toward the wall.

· The proper gully shall be slightly less than thickness of the carpet, but not to exceed 3/8 inch (10 mm).

· The tackless strip should be cut to proper lengths to maintain the same gully regardless of the shape of the wall.

· The tackless strip must be securely fastened to maintain the proper stretch provided by power stretching. Two nails (fastening points) are required for the smallest pieces of tackless strip.

· Carpet shall NOT be stapled to the tackless strip.

· Avoid placing tackless strip across door openings or door sills where possible.

 

[sweendogg]

Dang, you beat me to it! What he said ^

 

[joe harper]

Double TACKSTRIPPING is not uncommon.....

Many BERBERS have EXTREEMLY stiff backing...This can cause them to POP off the
Tackless when the Carpet is installed over HEAVY cushion.."That has NOT been secured
Properly with a stair tool.."

It also ALLOWES for a TIGHTER STRETCH when installed on a "Brittle or Poor Quality CONCRETE
subfloor" One precautation that should be taken in this type of installation....Is AFTER the
PROPER srtetch has been acheived....Go BACK around the Perimeter of the room & Take your
Stairtool and Rake over the Secondary Strip....This to Bend down the Pins...This will keep
Any walking "BAREFOOTED" close to the wall from getting STUCK with the Tackless...

 

[Harry Myers]

It wont hurt remember guide lines are minimal requirements.

 

[sweendogg]

Harper, that is good advise but the problem with that pratice is if there is ever a problem. Alot of times you will damage the carpet or make it impossible to preserve the tackstrip if you have to pull it back up. Another option is to purchase tackstrip withthe right pin length for the specfiic carpet you are installing. Or build up the tackstrip with a few layers of either this duck tape or even dense posterboard to limit the pin penetration and to avoid the said problem of finding the tackstrip when barefooted.

 

[joe harper]

Dave,

This type of install...Is only REQUIRED...on a POOR SLAB....

We have a problem here in fl. which is called a "RAIN SLAB"..
This occurs when the POURED CONCRETE slab is rained on...before it is CURED...

When this happens... the concrete becomes very BRITTLE...So the POUNDING of the
concrete tackless crumbles the subfloor....leaving the concrete nail with no BITE...

When you CRANK down on the Power-Stretcher...It will cause the tackless to break free..
The only way to AVOID double tackstripping....is to DRILL and ANCHOR every nail..PITA..

The only Purpose of the "BACK-UP" strip is for support ....If the Primary Strip fails....

 

[sweendogg]

I geta ya. We drill every strip on concrete regardless of how well the factory nails hold. Unless there is a radiant heat issue or some other reason we can not drill and nail it. As for the double stripping. Its not just used on concrete. On most of karaloc backings, you almost have to use double strip or three pin to grip the backing properly. We use three pin standard when we have to replace strip or put new strip in. I still do more hardwood and carpet installs than cleaning. All part of the family biz I guess.

 

[joe harper]

Dave,

It is great to see SOMEONE stills takes the TIME to do the JOB RIGHT !!!!!!!

The 1st time I saw this type of INSTALL .....I said "WHAT THE HELL"...

I purchased a COMPEDITOR....He was under CONTRACT with some SCUM-BAGG contractors.
"I am sure you know what I am talking about" He had COOKED the books to HIDE the
TRUE margins on the new construction jobs...

I only allowed type of install for the DURATION of that specific contract...(7 homes)..
A lot of my friends in the flooring BIZ...are really HURTING here..

I wish you well & much success in your FAMILYs buiness...

I was in the flooring business for 9 years...I LOVED the business...BUT...HATED to
deal with the INSTALLERS... They are a BREED OF THERE OWN.... :roll:

 

[sweendogg]

Installers are a breed of their own and that is probably part of the reason we have not grown our business nearly as much. We've been around for over 55 years in our area and we stick to our policy of slow conservative growth. We've found our nitch in the higher end goods. Alot of our competitors have stuck with the low end high volume approach and have only tried kidney punching us for business when their market dried up. Things slowed for us but we are starting to see a pickup in business again and our rug cleaning and carpet cleaning is always growing. With most cleaners in our town doing ultra cheap high volume, or using outdated standards like leaving carpets wet for more than a day, its been a slow go to change people's perception of the value of carpet cleaning.

 

[joe harper]

55 years....That is great.... :!:

Then your family has been through LEAN times before..... :wink:


VOLUME in any business...in a DANGEROUS road to travel...... :roll:

When the VOLUME is gone....So are THEY...... :shock:

As tough as these TIMES are going to BE! It is also TIME for a little .."Thinning of the HERD"



BEST OF LUCK TO YOU & YOUR FAMILY..............

 

[Hoody]

Only reason I asked is because I went to do a restretch on a rental property the other day. The carpet was 7 years old. I used a knee kick to disengage the carpet, and it looked like the pins weren't facing the wall on the tackless strip. I got the carpet to stretch fine. The carpet wouldn't secure properly on the tackless strip no matter what I did. I know I need to take a class for sure. But I stretch the carpet, and fold the excess and secure the carpet back to the tackless strip, and the cut off the excess, and get the smaller excess under the baseboards.

What I ended up having to do was install and second tackless strip around a few of the rooms, and the carpet secured fine then. Then I cleaned it, and everything was fine.

 

[sweendogg]

Hoodie, if the pins were facing back towards you then either it was installed incorrectly or it was weaker tackstrip and the pins were not strong enough the hold the previous stretch. So in your case you did the right thing. You could have also pulled the old tackstrip as well and simply replaced but either way was acceptable as long as it didn't create a problem with pin puncture as stated above or if it was overly noticable in the traffic of the carpet.

Also another tip, when stretching up a wall, you don't have to trim and tuck the carpet as you go. You can simply stretch and entire wall and set the carpet on the tackstrip with a ditcher or spreader. Then you can come back with a wall trimmer or hand cut if you like and tuck the carpet. I think you'll find this method much more efficient.

 

[Hoody]

thank you i will try that next time. i learned how to restretch by watching installers for the past few years and helping them with rentals.

you cant imagine how many installation errors i have found on commercial glue down in the state buildings here.

barry costa is teaching a repair class here in a few months i want to go and get my cert.