Accelerating a reducer?

[Hack Attack]

I sometimes use UV light with HP on stubborn stains when I dont want to risk a higher %

Can the same be done with a reducer?

Or because a reducer works basicly opposite to an oxidiser would the UV slow/stop the reaction?

@Tom Forsythe @scottw or anyone else who knows or thinks they know

 

[Tom Forsythe]

Reducer is accelerated by alkalinity and heat. The old 2 part formulas were reducer and ammonia. You added the 2 together and the reducing action was enhanced. The one part formulas have the alkaline built into the formula. Heat is provided by an iron and steamer. You need to watch as you can take the reaction too far and bleach out the dye.

Heat will also activate peroxide but it is more difficult to control and more readily results in color loss. We do not recommend accelerating a peroxide product with heat on our labels. Hope this helps.

 

[Hack Attack]

Reducer is accelerated by alkalinity and heat. The old 2 part formulas were reducer and ammonia. You added the 2 together and the reducing action was enhanced. The one part formulas have the alkaline built into the formula. Heat is provided by an iron and steamer. You need to watch as you can take the reaction too far and bleach out the dye.

Heat will also activate peroxide but it is more difficult to control and more readily results in color loss. We do not recommend accelerating a peroxide product with heat on our labels. Hope this helps.

Thanks, more specifically asking about a reducer and UV though?
Energy can't be created but can be transferred ie heat, chemistry or light.
Does the UV energy accelerate or retard a reducer, or is a different wave length required?

 

[hogjowl]

You just HAVE to be different, dont you!

 

[Cleanworks]

Reducer is accelerated by alkalinity and heat. The old 2 part formulas were reducer and ammonia. You added the 2 together and the reducing action was enhanced. The one part formulas have the alkaline built into the formula. Heat is provided by an iron and steamer. You need to watch as you can take the reaction too far and bleach out the dye.

Heat will also activate peroxide but it is more difficult to control and more readily results in color loss. We do not recommend accelerating a peroxide product with heat on our labels. Hope this helps.

We used to accelerate a reducer (streepene) with acetic acid. We would put the powder on the stain, sprinkle with acid and watch the reaction until we were happy, then rinse to stop it. Couple of times, we went too far and took color out of the carpet.

 

[J Scott W]

Heat and alkalinity or acid are far better for accelerating a reducer. The energy form UV can add only a little.

Keep in mind that if something is gaining electrons (being reduced) then something else has to be losing electrons (being oxidized). There are always to sides to the reaction. Can be called Red-Ox. It is just a matter of which side of the reaction you are concentrating on.

 

[ruff]

Tom & Scott,
On the chemical side (not heat etc.) I was under the impression the Amonia accelerates peroxide
and acid accelerates Reducers.

Did I get it wrong?

 

[Hack Attack]

You just HAVE to be different, dont you!

LOL

 

[Hack Attack]

I live in the land of wall to wall wool not the United States of Polyester

So I prefer reducers over oxidisers as it generally is safer, but sometimes I'm after a lil extra tweak and I dont like doing it chemically as too far is too far

I've tried a UV on a reducer but didn't change anything, just wasn't sure if the UV was doing anything or just 1 of those stains?

 

[Hack Attack]

Fourth wool job this week and its my quiet season..
just because its wool doesn't mean it gets respected!



Didn't work too much on some the staining, the old boy just wanted it tidied so he could bring his girlfriend back from the retirement village lol

 

[sassyotto]

heres a question on the same line of thought. Most oxidizers are apply and walk away. Would it be beneficial to put wax paper over the spot after applying an oxidizer so that it does not evaporate and has more time to work? or is it better to apply and walk away?

 

[Hack Attack]

heres a question on the same line of thought. Most oxidizers are apply and walk away. Would it be beneficial to put wax paper over the spot after applying an oxidizer so that it does not evaporate and has more time to work? or is it better to apply and walk away?

I'll sometimes cover a low %HP on wool so it has extra time to work

I tend to leave accelerating HP to the franchise boys.. man do I see some fried wools and nylons after they've been through

 

[Old Coastie]

You just HAVE to be different, dont you!

Easy there ol’ son. Never get between a Kiwi and wet sheep.

 

[Jim Morrison]

heres a question on the same line of thought. Most oxidizers are apply and walk away. Would it be beneficial to put wax paper over the spot after applying an oxidizer so that it does not evaporate and has more time to work? or is it better to apply and walk away?

When we're busy, don't always have time to bust out the iron and do heat transfer. In those cases we mist on the peroxide and cover with saran wrap, ask the customer to remove it after several hours.

 

[roro]

Easy there ol’ son. Never get between a Kiwi and wet sheep.

Guess we're a bit like Yellowhammers and their Mammies

 

[Tom Forsythe]

Tom & Scott,
On the chemical side (not heat etc.) I was under the impression the Amonia accelerates peroxide
and acid accelerates Reducers.

Did I get it wrong?

Hydrogen peroxide has a pH around 2.5 and sodium metabisulfite has a pH around 3. if you raise the pH of sodium metabisulfite to over 7 the rotten egg smell dissipates. You not only accelerate the reaction but eliminate the smell. Ammonia accelerates both. Our Stain Zone(oxidizer) has a pH of 5.5 in the bottle while Red Zone Ready (reducer) has a pH of 7.0 in the bottle. In the R&D of both products we were able to add alkalinity to enhance the reaction. However, we lost significant shelf life when we tried to increase the alkalinity (thereby pH) above 5.5 & 7.0.

 

[Rick J]

Reducer is accelerated by alkalinity and heat. The old 2 part formulas were reducer and ammonia. You added the 2 together and the reducing action was enhanced. The one part formulas have the alkaline built into the formula. Heat is provided by an iron and steamer. You need to watch as you can take the reaction too far and bleach out the dye.

Heat will also activate peroxide but it is more difficult to control and more readily results in color loss. We do not recommend accelerating a peroxide product with heat on our labels. Hope this helps.

I guess there is no perfect answer.
I know I have gotten impatient with stains that would not budge. Usually \somekind of furniture stain. Not realistic to cover with plastic and wait as is often recomended. And , of course really discolored the carpet. !! LOL
But , as well, in a setting that it was not an issue and I was using it for experience.
Learned to just say no, it won't come out. !!!!
usually using peroxide products

 

[J Scott W]

Tom & Scott,
On the chemical side (not heat etc.) I was under the impression the Amonia accelerates peroxide
and acid accelerates Reducers.

Did I get it wrong?

You are not wrong. The point I was trying to make was that because both reactions would always happen at the same time, what would accelerate one would really be accelerating both reactions. I edited my post to show that both alkaline or acid might be used as an accelerant.

 

[J Scott W]

heres a question on the same line of thought. Most oxidizers are apply and walk away. Would it be beneficial to put wax paper over the spot after applying an oxidizer so that it does not evaporate and has more time to work? or is it better to apply and walk away?

The oxidizers can be "Spray and Walk away" because they are 100% volatile. When they evaporate there is no residue left. Not normally the case with reducers.

An oxidizer will take some time to remove a stain. If it evaporates before the stain is removed, it is no longer working and some stain is still there. Plastic wrap or similar would have slowed evaporation and helped remove more of the stain. The stain may be removed before the oxidizer evaporates and no covering was needed. In a extreme case, covering the oxidizer could result in it being on long enough that color from the carpet gets removed. Covering it produced an unfavorable result.

The answer is specific to the situation. I usually advise covering the oxidizer if there is much air movement or the conditions are dry and it might evaporate quickly. If the carpet or upholstery being worked on is delicate or expensive, I would stay and look every few minutes. Add more if needed. Rinse out if any evidence of unwanted color removal.

 

[Rick J]

You are not wrong. The point I was trying to make was that because both reactions would always happen at the same time, what would accelerate one would really be accelerating both reactions. I edited my post to show that both alkaline or acid might be used as an accelerant.

well shoot, put both on together and you will have the heat you need!!!

 

[J Scott W]

For sure. Here is what happened when one cleaner mixed an oxidizer and a reducer, just a drop of each.

 

[Rick J]

@scottw or @Shawn Forsythe
A little off topic, but since you are here, does amonia go bad if stored a long time?

 

[Tom Forsythe]

I do not know as we do not use ammonia in our plant. It is safer in packaged products, but raw form is dangerous. I do not like reading an SDS that says overexposure can be fatal. I worked several months to find a suitable alternative that still performed the same without exposing our production workers to an unnecessary hazard.

 

[sassyotto]

I had a heavily soiled white nylon carpet I was cleaning and it was cleaning extremely well until the last section where the soil was hiding a spot I could not get out. My guess is a coffee spill since the homeowner just bought the place so they didn't know what it was either.

Anyway I used a peroxide spotter and covered it with wax paper and put some wood trim on top to hold the wax paper in place and told them to take the wax paper off after 24 hours, then let dry for two days and call me if the spot is still there. Usually they never call back because the stain disappears but this time they did call back and I told them maybe it may require another treatment and I would take a look at it. When I got there it was about 40% better but the carpet being white you could still see it. I thought I would try something first so I set up me TM and rinsed the spot with water. It made it look much better where if you didn't know it was there you would not be able to see it. So I made one more application.

First time this happened. Just wondering what may have caused the spot to lighten up just with a water rinse after the initial peroxide application?

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

@scottw or @Shawn Forsythe
A little off topic, but since you are here, does amonia go bad if stored a long time?

Shelf life is approximately two years in typical residential conditions. The Ammonium Hydroxide in solution does emit a fair amount of ammonia gas over time, weakening the remaining solution.

 

[hogjowl]

Shawn’s back?

 

[Rick J]

Shelf life is approximately two years in typical residential conditions. The Ammonium Hydroxide in solution does emit a fair amount of ammonia gas over time, weakening the remaining solution.

I thought so.
I needed some amonia a while back. AND!! I thought I had some. From years ago, on the shelf , I still have a few kits of the erusticator that you had to neutralize . It came with amonia for that. It was like water.